Fantastic Four and Superman: The One Scene That Shows What a Difference James Gunn Makes

This article contains spoilers for Superman and The Fantastic Four: First Steps.

Even before they released, just two weeks apart from one another, we knew that Superman and The Fantastic Four: First Steps would have a lot in common. Both movies feature founding characters from the comics, both embrace the qualities that made their characters uncool in the past, and both have a hopeful, optimistic tone.

But the similarities go even deeper than that, as the two movies hit some of the same plot points – throwing the viewer into an ongoing narrative and featuring scenes of the public turning against their one-time protectors and later evacuating to escape the devastation of their city.

The most notable shared scene has much lower stakes. Early in Superman, an argument breaks out when Lois Lane’s interview questions press Clark Kent harder than he expected. Midway through Fantastic Four, one of Reed Richards’s thought experiments infuriates his wife Sue Storm. While both approaches have their charms, the immediacy that James Gunn brings to the Superman fight highlights the limitations of Marvel‘s factory approach, still apparent in First Steps.

Domesticated Superhero Fighting

All couples fight, especially in high-stress situations. And it’s hard to imagine a situation more stressful than the one that Reed and Sue face late in First Steps. The Silver Surfer has told them that the cosmic being Galactus will devour the planet Earth. Everything they and their teammates Ben Grimm and Johnny Storm have tried has failed to stop Galactus. The only option on the table is to accept the offer Galactus extends to them: he will spare the planet if Reed and Sue give him their infant son Franklin.

Of course, both Sue and Reed refuse, a decision supported by their teammates. But when Reed expresses sympathy for the crowds who have gathered around the Fantastic Four’s headquarters to protest their decision to keep Franklin, Sue snaps. She storms off into another room to cradle Franklin, with Reed trailing behind. She throws his words back at him, recognizing that his acknowledgment that the plan to give up Franklin is “mathematical, ethical, and available” means that he has considered something she considers unthinkable.

“I don’t wonder, I don’t dream,” he retorts. “I invite the worst possible scenarios into my head so I can hurt them before they hurt us. Sue counters by reminding him that imagining those scenarios does still hurt her, as he separates himself from her when the family needs him present.

Unlike First Steps, the fight in Superman starts out so innocuous Clark doesn’t even see it coming. He offers to let Lois interview him as Superman as a bit of flirtation, possibly an opportunity to show her the purity of his intentions. Even if he disagrees with the premise of her first couple of questions, about the public blowback to his decision to intercede in the fictional nation Boravia’s invasion into its neighbor Jarhanpur, Clark remains confident in his ability to handle it.

Yet, a journalist of Lois Lane’s caliber isn’t going to let Clark duck her questions. And so she presses him on how he used his incredible powers against the Boravian president and whether he consulted with the American government before acting. When that line of questioning gets too hot, Lois shifts to ask him about the public skepticism toward Superman, an alien with amazing powers.

Although he wants to maintain his Superman persona and treat Lois like just another reporter, Clark repeatedly breaks character, appealing to his personal feelings toward her. It’s those feelings that linger even after Clark puts an end to the interview and begins to pout away. When Lois calls him on his sulky attitude, Clark pushes back, leading her to mutter to herself and, to be certain, to him, “I knew this would never work.”

Two arguments with superheroic stakes. But one feels more real than the other.

From the Fantastic to the Mundane

To be sure, the two argument scenes are among the best moments of their respective movies. Both have relevance to the overall plot, but neither feels forced and they both stem from authentic character motivations.

Yet, there’s no question that the Superman scene is richer and more nuanced than the one in Fantastic Four. Reed and Sue’s declarations are true to their characters, but they are very much declarations, bordering on exposition. Reed is telling us that he worries a lot and Sue is telling us that she doesn’t always like that worry. The two characters know who they are, know how they feel, and know how to articulate those feelings to one another.

Conversely, the argument in Superman is like a real argument between a couple, in which emotion and facts intermingle in ways aren’t always clear. Clark goes into the fight convinced that he is right and that Lois loves him as much as he loves her, even if she can’t say it yet. So when she starts questioning his intentions, he doesn’t know how to react, nor does he know how to deal with the hurt and betrayal he feels and doesn’t want to address.

Unlike the Reed and Sue argument, which happens rather quickly and resolves in the next scene, the Superman fight takes time for specific details to pop up as Clark and Lois’s argument starts and stops. We learn not only that Clark sees social media attention as beneath Superman (even if he can’t quite live up to that standard), but also that Lois has noticed his reactions to online posts. The scene catches Lois pausing when she’s torn between her desire to grill an interviewee and her reluctance to hurt Clark. Clark switches from proud to aloof to self-righteous to sulky, often without realizing what he’s doing.

In other words, Lois and Clark squabble like actual people. The topic of the argument may involve aliens and superpowers, but the feelings are real, not just in the performances, but in the writing and filmmaking as well.

Fighting for the Future

The Fantastic Four argument isn’t a bad scene by any metric. Pedro Pascal and Vanessa Kirby deliver the lines well and they are true to the characters. The fight organically sets up the next plot point, which leads to the overall story resolution. Anyone watching First Steps would expect even a loving couple like Reed and Sue to clash, and the scene meets that expectation.

Yet, all it does is meet expectations, which is the best Marvel can do as of late. Even Fantastic Four, which joins Thunderbolts* in signaling an uptick in quality from the House of Ideas, still feels like a factory product. Matt Shakman has a light touch shooting the interactions between Marvel’s First Family, and the escape from Galactus midway through the film is as good as anything the studio has ever made. But the five credited screenwriters and choppy edits reveal a workman quality to the movie.

Overstuffed and running fifteen minutes longer, Superman is clearly the messier picture. But that messiness gives room for personal touches that clearly come from a filmmaker with a perspective. Lois and Clark don’t just feel like the Lois and Clark in the comics, like Reed and Sue in First Steps feel like correct adaptations of Fantastic Four comics. Rather, they feel like James Gunn’s specific interpretation of those characters.

As we move into a fourth wave of superhero movies, after the fatigue that followed Marvel’s domination during the third wave, Superman and Gunn are throwing down a challenge to Kevin Feige and the Marvelous competition. Hopefully, they’ll follow suit and make superhero movies that aren’t just accurate to the comics, but accurate to real life.

Superman and The Fantastic Four: First Steps are now in theaters.