Den of Geek

Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?

Andrew Blair


There is such a thing as mocking with affection and in well-informed groups, and too much of fandom is free of warmth towards the programme they claim is their favourite

Doctor Who may enjoy a devoted and passionate following, but are the show’s fans its worst enemy? Here’s Andrew’s view…

Published on Jan 25, 2012


The Doctor's worst enemy has been with him since near the very start. Eventually, they evolved into a terrifying force, one that ultimately helped bring down the Time Lord, driven by unchecked rage and an inability to comprehend simple human emotions.

That's right: fandom.

Shrill, blinkered and unhelpful, Doctor Who fans at their worst have done more damage to the show than any revelations of half-humanity, burping wheelie-bins or complex series-arcs.

Recently, we managed to surpass ourselves by hurling abuse at Fern Britton for simply not liking science fiction. Her comments on the long-running BBC show Room 101 were staggeringly ill informed if you're us, but most people wouldn't entirely disagree with her. However, on prime time BBC One, Britton was held to account by Robert Webb and Frank Skinner. In no way did she look good as a result. Justice was served.

Fern Britton immediately trended on Twitter. Apparently, there are more sci-fi fans on the Internet than there are Fern Britton fans. I can't even be bothered to be sarcastic about that. The clear majority of tweets showed that the way to celebrate an enjoyment of genre fiction was to mock someone about their weight. Social networking allows people to hurl abuse at strangers, providing a hard copy of thoughtless cruelty that can spiral into a national news story that dominates the week.

This means that Jeremy Clarkson can make a bad joke – of the kind that Jeremy Clarkson specialises in – on television and sit back as his pre-Christmas book sales increase. So, primed with the news that Fern Britton was going to insult us, we made sure we watched the first episode of a new series. It's easy to be cynical. There's a reason for that. The mobs are depressingly predictable.

The reaction to Britton saying ignorant things on television wasn't a case of “And another reason sci-fi is brilliant is because...” but instead a series of fat jokes. Where previously only Fern Britton looked bad, now most geeks look like petty, vindictive, joyless hacks. After the broadcast of A Good Man Goes To War, Steve Moffat, Doctor Who show-runner, tweeted the following:

"Only one death threat, two demands for my immediate resignation, and two for my suicide. IT'S A HIT!!"

So boo Fern Britton! She's slagging off our favourite shows! That's our job. And if we see fit to send death threats to the writer, it's only because we love it so much. It's easy to mock. I know because I've watched Warriors Of The Deep. There is such a thing as mocking with affection and in well-informed groups, and too much of fandom is free of warmth towards the programme they claim is their favourite.

At the Edinburgh Festival this year, a comedian on a Richard Herring podcast boasted about calling Sylvester McCoy “a c**t” at the Fringe a few years back, a mere 20 years after the actor had regularly appeared in the show. I felt ashamed to be associated with him via fandom, to be lumped in with someone who would happily insult a stranger minding his own business over a two-decade old animosity and think it something deserving of praise.

Maybe it's the underlying bitterness within fandom of their precious show not staying the same, not remaining as it was during their childhood, which leads to sociopathic acts such as this being deemed laudable. The alternative is that some people are just miserable and can turn someone else's positive into a negative.

The downturn in fortunes for the show in the 80s coincided with the rise of fandom as an organised entity, and yet the best of fandom is in groups who bond and share other interests through the show, leading to friendships and relationships that last lifetimes. I wouldn't be a member of CAMRA if I weren't a Doctor Who fan, for example. Things spiral wonderfully out of control.

However, 80s producer John Nathan-Turner courted fandom, using the convention circuit to build the show's profile abroad at the expense of paying attention to things back in London. He unequivocally loved the show, but fans are fickle, and when the stories veered from the sublime to the ridiculous, the latter caused organised fandom to attack the show via newsletters, fanzines and the occasional hate-mail. Organisation meant an outlet for anger, and the show's past suffered a backlash.

When the show was put on hiatus in 1985, fandom tried to help. It bombarded newspapers with letters, and the papers realised they were onto a good thing by campaigning on their behalf. Michael Grade was also bombarded with letters containing such hatred that it's amazing the show ever reappeared.

Certainly, they were in no way helpful to the show's cause, and neither was the appearance of some fans to discuss Time And The Rani on Open Air. They were, in their minds, trying to help. Trying to be light-hearted can go wrong too. Karen Gillan's long-term relationship ended, and the response from fans on Twitter was at best an attempt at levity, and at worst a portrayal of male fans as insensitive and lecherous stalkers.

Received fan wisdom, which has undergone more revisionism than the history of Russia, is thankfully contained on the internet. We are living in a golden age where Doctor Who Magazine can be brandished in public with no great loss of social status, but on forums, huge great wedges of the curmudgeonly are enveloping new fans daily, destroying any chance of merely watching and enjoying a telly programme they might once have had. New series fans hate old series fans. Any woman who likes the Tenth Doctor is just a Tennant fangirl. Steve Moffat is sexist. Amy Pond is just a pout on legs. Anything fast-paced is dumbed down nonsense.

The arguments repeat themselves and repeat themselves like people wish the Hinchcliffe era had. Over on the DVD sections, the team who painstakingly restore episodes to broadcast quality are pilloried for the slightest mistake, and the slightest drop in quality of DVD extras is received with the kind of ire you'd expect to be reserved for murderers. Forums have closed due to the bitterness of arguments between fans, such is the misdirection of our passion.

This is the problem. It's not that we don't love the show. John Nathan-Turner loved the show. He still made mistakes, even if they were well intentioned. Doctor Who now is not made for us anyway. We enjoy it because it is a continuation of the show we loved as children, and allowances are made for us because the show is inclusive, and yet we tear it apart. Why can't we, as fans, manage to enjoy it on our own terms irrespective of the opinions of others?

If Fern Britton doesn't like sci-fi, that's her loss. We do enjoy it, and our world is all the richer for that. Someone on a forum once asked for advice when they were being bullied for liking Sylvester McCoy. My advice was to ignore them. Watch Ghostlight and enjoy it, because you can and they cannot. This is how you win. Their world is limited in comparison to yours.

If you love a TV show, show it by watching it and enjoying it and sharing that enjoyment with others, because insulting people who disagree with you on the internet is so far yet to solve anything.

Check out the new and ever growing Doctor Who page at DoG, where we are marshalling all the Who content at the site, including interviews, DVD and episode reviews, lists, opinions and articles on our favourite time traveller...

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Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By paulychilds 1 January 26, 2012 09:08:13 AM

Here Here! About time somebody spoke back to the idiots who regularly claim "I could be a better show runner than JNT/RTD/SM etc" after an episode they don't like!

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By Spidermanalf 1 January 26, 2012 09:14:32 AM

Great article. I avoid 'hardcore' geek forums due to their blinkered visions and lack of flexibility in anything that does not fit in or agree with their likes/dislikes. I have even seen it get heated on here on the weekly Dr Who reviews! But at least on here, it does remain light hearted. As someone has said before, the internet is great, it's just a shame people spoil it.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By derooftrouser 1 January 26, 2012 09:38:12 AM

Fortunately the people running the show are wise enough to ignore the 'True Fans'. Doctor Who has fans because it is great. It's not great because it has fans.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By Galadriel 1 January 26, 2012 09:49:47 AM

If you need a quick fix to restore your faith in Doctor Who fandom, go AT ONCE to YouTube and watch/listen to our Doctor Who Fan Orchestra (DWFO) video performances!!! "Rose's Theme/Doomsday" just came online yesterday, and it's our best sound yet; "This is Gallifrey/Vale Decem" is AWESOME; and "I Am the Doctor" is good too. The majority of Who fans are wonderful people; a nasty vocal minority just gives us a bad name. I may complain at times, but I try to do it politely and with respect for the huge diversity of views within the Who-niverse.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By CJWheeler 1 January 26, 2012 09:56:10 AM

I'm 26 and Sylvester McCoy is my Doctor and I like him a lot although, I prefer Pertwee. I got nothing but crap from other kids for watching Who and being a massive nerd about it. I knew one other lad who was obsessed with a VHS (this was before online streaming kiddies) of Peter Cushing in Dr. Who and The Daleks and he was an absolute arse about any other version. Until the relaunch with Eccleston I quietly sat on my Who nerdery and have been staggered to see how popular it's become with kids, dads, mums, celebrities and psycho fan-girls who frankly should not be allowed near the internet, and possibly cutlery of any kind.Now I refuse to watch Doctor Who, despite liking Matt Smith's interpretation of the character more than Eccleston or Tennant. You have to remember that most of the people who watch Who don't touch sci-fi in any other flavour - it's their acceptable form of whatever the word 'geek' actually means these days. They laugh at themselves for 'being so geeky' because they regularly watch one show that can be loosely classed as sci-fi, and maybe the odd episode of Buffy once upon a time. It's so funny to go to work and hear people discussing with almost religious fervour something that they wouldn't have been seen dead associating themselves with twenty-five years ago. The apparent geekiness of wider society is extremely narrow and quite embarrassing. Although I understand the point of what you're saying Andrew - enjoy the show and don't get so worked up about television! - it's got to be said that for quite a few people, the current Doctor Who fandom craze is mind-numbingly exhausting to behold. The same goes for Sherlock. They're beginning to resemble how irritating die-hard Star Wars used to be when you realised they'd never actually watched an episode of Trek, and they looked down on any other type of sci-fi because their childhood was Star Wars to the exclusion of everything else. A lot of us really like everything from Battlestar Galactica to Red Dwarf to Star Trek (even forgiveable features of Enterprise) to The X-Files. The Doctor Who craze hangers-on could learn a few lessons from proper geeks who don't sport their geekiness like a badge to try and give them some sense of personality around the playground, in the JCR or in the office. Make it so.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By CJWheeler 1 January 26, 2012 10:00:01 AM

Oh and what was this about Fern Britton?! I hadn't heard about that.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By CJWheeler 1 January 26, 2012 10:05:02 AM

Google wins - for anybody who missed Room 101 the other day: http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2012/01/23/room-101-why-fern-britton-needs-a-crash-course-in-science-fiction/

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By TARDInSexy 1 January 26, 2012 10:39:48 AM

Fantastic article. The worst thing is how, and I know it's a bad relfection on myself, when someone comes in saying ".... is the worst era", ".... was so much better", if I disagree my opinions will become more extreme. I enjoyed much of the RTD era at the time, it was my least favourite since Pertwee but I was glad to have the show back. Now after all the trolls ranting about how much better things were under RTD (which I couldn't agree less with) I find my opinion of the RTD era decreasing and decreasing. Sure there are some dire episodes, and even a completely dire season (season 24), but we've just had a series with the Doctors Wife and the Girl Who Waited... and people are still ranting. Likewise I'll never understand how people can hate the entirity of the McCoy era which produced Ghost Light and the Curse of Fenric!

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By Megachi 1 January 26, 2012 10:40:17 AM

I think it's very interesting topic you discussed in this article. Cause not only Who-fandom but a lot of others can ruin a show for viewers. Lately I catched myself thinking "Moffat's Who is not that interesting as the RTD's one" and then I realised how spoiled I must be to think like that. I'm really glad that when all creative decisions about Who are made I can't partisipate and ruin everything with my taste and narrow views. Cause it's true that amateurs ask "why haven't you done something else?" while professionals ask "why have you done exactly that?"

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By SimonCurtis 1 January 26, 2012 10:55:00 AM

I agree, but it's not all fans of course. But they of course are less vocal on the matter.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By kivgeek 1 January 26, 2012 12:11:15 PM

for a long time i have said that the biggest problem with getting comic based TV shows on the air; is the fan. Okay the Wonder Woman TV show was a train wreak but i wonder if it would have been such a wreak if people hadnt beeen screaming from the sidelines. The minute the show was anounced, before any peice of information was know (other tha the name and the producer) people were screaming about Allie McBeal in a wonder woman costume. People hate Matt smith before he spoke a word, "he is no David Tennent

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By therainydayman@googlemail.com 1 January 26, 2012 12:16:33 PM

i agree. i've always liked the show, and it's a good show that makes lots of people happy, but bieng insultive to people about it is very un-doctor-ish. can't everyone get along?

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By Prabha 1 January 26, 2012 12:59:37 PM

Yes, and no. Sure, the fandom can be crazy and vocalize its happiness/unhappiness extensively, but also, the medias are the same (they actually are the ones eager to give the fans bullets for their ire, because it sells), commenting on anything about the show. For example, I'd never have heard about the Fern Britton story if I hadn't read this article. SECOND, times have changed, it's not fair to systematically bully the fans for taking interest in a show they love only when what they say doesn't suit you (but when they are behhind their screen giving great viewing figures, noone complains, even if we're taking about the same people), it's up to the DW team (and others fans) to adapt to it and deal with it with elegance, instead of finding it offensive to know what people are thinking -- yes, nowadays, the fans have easy ways to let everyone know about their criticisms while they were on mute in the past, so what? Should be a good thing. Get over it, it's part of the game, some reviews will be fair, others unfair, some will share your opinions, others won't, that's how people are --. But most of the fans are good people, they are the ones supporting it and making the viewing figures that allows the show to be. THIRD, There's a trend from DW producers these days to despise fans - and discard anything they say as stupid or bitter or else - that I really dislike. Anyone is entitled to his opinion. Sure, the producers would prefer everyone to say they are geniuses, so they could answer with self-indulgent "I know!!", but sometime criticism is a great thing to understand what works and doesn't work in your show. Of course, you can't take into account any criticism made, but some are fair and constructive. Discard them all agressively as idiotic is a sign of another kind of bitterness mixed with self-satisfaction, a lacking in ability to accept criticism and question its own work -- and therefore to improve. OK, it's tough for a writer who gave his best to see it's work boned by anyone on the internet, but that how it is, and it won't stop. So, become stronger or stop writing, but don't blame the ones who paid attention to the said work because they don't always agree with you.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By TARDInSexy 1 January 26, 2012 01:17:23 PM

Prabha you're missing the point, and I think you're doing so because you're currently one of the strongest trolls on this board right now. Under Letts the show was criticised for overusing the Master, making the Doctor too much an action hero and for removing the time and space fundamentals of the show. Under Hinchcliffe fans wrote in complaining about the lack of continuity in classics such as the Deadly Assassin and Genesis of the Daleks, and that the show was getting too dark. Under Graham Williams the fan base complained that the show was getting too light hearted and silly. Under JNT the complaint was it was too violent and the writing quality varied too wildly. Under RTD the complaints were the lowest common denominator stories, a large scale attack on earth every week and people gaining magic super powers to solve every finale, not to mention the toilet humour. Under Moffat it's River Song being too much a focus or there being too much an arc... ...you see the thing is none of those complaints are inherntly bad things (except perhaps the fluctuating writing quality), they're directions the show has taken, you either like them or you don't. But mindless ***** like you rant and rant and rant trying to make the entire world see your opinion (when in reality people just end up wanting to thump you). The complaints have never corrolated to viewing figures (that said there hasn't been an era which didn't suffer from complaints). You clearly don't like the new direction but others do, Den of Geek do, I do, you've tried to claim before that more people agree with you but the numbers don't add up. Perhaps your opinion is just more important because you shout louder eh? I don't care what *you* think, the shows producers don't care what you or I think. If the ratings fall drastically then they might. But they're certainly not going to listen to some moron saying "this is the way it must be". I mean how many people rant and rave about Smith and Amy Pond? How many claim each is the worst thing to happen to the show, and then last night each wins at the NTAs... imagine if the producers actually listened to the **** on the internet, how awful and reactive the show would be. And as a final note, the shows creaters haven't complained about people having negative opinions, they've complained about them being venomous and abusive in thier opinions, and directing them at the producers. It no longer seems to be about whether people liked an individual episode, they hurl abuse at the creators which is frankly disgusting.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By Prabha 1 January 26, 2012 01:29:45 PM

Tardinsexy: I don't think I was talking to you here, and I haven't insulted you in any way, so what's your real problem with me? -- except for the fact that I don't share you opinions, which apparently makes me a "mindless *****" or "moron" or "troll" in your vocabulary, making you the perfect example of the kind of fan unable to deal with others opinions and making it difficult for everyone who loves it (you know, the one the article was talking about).

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By Borusa 1 January 26, 2012 01:33:42 PM

@ TARDInSexy - Well put and just as well put as this article. I think the main problem with some fans is that they want the show to be the way they remembered the show as a child and not how it actually is now. That's what Moffat is doing with the show now and what RTD did, so they're only doing/did what any fan like that would do/did. At the end of the day, Doctor Who is a show that can be anything and if some fans don't like it then that's fine, but don't express your views in a vulgar manner and especially don't aim it directly aimed at the producers of the show.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By TARDInSexy 1 January 26, 2012 01:35:43 PM

Your comments have been exclusively negative and patronizing of any positive ones. So how on earth are you one of the people who loves it? My problem is, and it's a problem you continued to demonstrate in the above post, that you state all your opinions as empirical fact and that the measure of quality is for your determination alone. If you're complaining then the show *must* be bad, and the shows producers *must* listen to your opinion.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By CJWheeler 1 January 26, 2012 01:37:06 PM

Hey peeps - chill out, put down your dukes and watch some Fringe. It's way better!

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By daftideasinc 1 January 26, 2012 02:05:16 PM

@TARDISInSexy "Prabha... you're currently one of the strongest trolls on this board" If you wish to be taken seriously, using such phrases doesn't make you the voice of moderation, it just makes you part of wider problem illustrated in the above article.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By Prabha 1 January 26, 2012 02:06:45 PM

No my friend, it's only your interpretation judging me on mere intent. If I didn't love the show, I wouldn't watch it, and contribute to the great viewing figures week after week. And I wouldn't comment on it. And if you must know, I think that Davies was wrong too on this matter. Which is MY opinion that I'm free to express as I see fit (and I never turn to insults for that) and that you are free to ignore, like I told you during our first discussion (the one where you were shocked that I could like an episode like "Fear Me" or "Love & Monsters").

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By Tlotoxl 1 January 26, 2012 02:41:56 PM

Sorry but there is an awful lot of rubbish in that article, *any* fans in pretty much any area will obsess and strike out against anybody that disagrees with them, after all fan is short for Fanatic, for an example look at football fans. Don't forget that fandom saved this show, in 85 DW would not have come back had it not been for the huge public outcry, you only have to look at the scheduling of it in post '85 against Corrie to know the BBC wanted rid of it, and it is the fans that have kept the show alive in 90's with the Virgin new adventures written by fans (including Russell T. Davies), likewise the Big Finish Audios & DWM The show was brought back in '96 by a fan and again - more successfully - in 2005, and who were the scripts written by? yep, fans.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By CJWheeler 1 January 26, 2012 02:56:09 PM

Those are good points, but isn't a big problem for anything fan dominance? Nobody has exclusive ownership of any idea, not even the people who create it. OK, maybe in a legal sense for a period of time, but just look at the success of public domain characters or fairly high-profile fan film series like Star Trek: New Voyages/Phase II or Star Wars fan films with Lucas' blessing. Some dude who's a fan but happens to be writing the show they're a fan of can really put other fans off. It might be better if scriptwriters didn't acknowledge their fandom, to protect themselves from the ire of their peers.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By TARDInSexy 1 January 26, 2012 03:00:25 PM

@Tlotoxl There's no doubt that the fans are shows biggest strength, and how it managed to come back. The article was specifically those who are abusive, not those who are constructive.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By Coleberg 1 January 26, 2012 03:28:38 PM

The people who hurl abuse at Fern Britten are not geeks, they're pricks. She did demonstrate an incredibly blinkered view of science-fiction with what sounded like a malice born out of hearing about it a lot rather than from seeing and judging any reasonable amount of it, but she appears to be a genuinely nice person who was only courteous to the others on the show and in everything else she's ever appeared and if comments such as those did appear on Twitter (I shall have to take your word for it: I stay away from cyber-lynchings wherever possible) then the perpetrators are deeply unfair and unpleasant individuals who do bring the name of fandom into disrepute. However, there seem to be much in this article, in the comments, and from members of the production team that suggests that any disapproval of aspects of the show must be wrong, and are 'ming-mongs' determined to complain about everything until it hits their perfect view of the show, an impossible aim. This I don't believe to be the case, and it isn't something that appears in any other genre. One is allowed to say that a sitcom has gone downhill, or a soap, or a thriller series, but to say that you're a fan of a sci-fi series yet dislike an aspect or direction of the show makes you a cancer on the show's audience. The fans are allowed to have expectations, standards, hopes. Not that the production team needs to bow down to every demand, that's a) impractical and b) subjective. And the production team clearly have a strong view of who the Doctor is and what the show is, and that's proven very popular (and rightly so). But the fans often have very good points: they raved about The Empty Child, they raved about Human Nature, and they raved about Midnight, and now they rave about Matt Smith. So I disagree with Steven Moffat (or others) waving his hand and dismissing the views of anyone who dislikes something about the TV show they adore as 'wrong'. They're not wrong, they just have different views, and maybe they might just be views worth hearing.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By TARDInSexy 1 January 26, 2012 03:47:52 PM

Errr he never called them 'wrong'... you completely mis-interpretted the article. It wasn't anything about not having a negative opinion, it's about throwing it about forcefully and obsessively. It's about insulting the production team (something you just came down on people for doing to fern britton) just because it isn't to their personal taste. But one thing is certain, their views are ABSOLUTELY NOT worth hearing unless they represent a majority (something impossible to determine given how vocal trolls are).

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By sigsig 1 January 26, 2012 03:59:16 PM

The only way the show can go downhill is through a significant drop in viewing figures and revenue. That's it. While it's nice when producers listen to fan requests, they don't need to do a thing, and a lot of the time probably shouldn't do a thing. I sometimes feel the overreactions you see ALL OVER THE INTERNET about Doctor Who are due in part because people feel they have a say in how the show progresses, when they don't. We have no rights whatsoever, never have, never will and never should.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By A1nostalgia 1 January 26, 2012 06:21:41 PM

Good article. Agree on the fans "thinking they know better" point. You write, produce and even star in Doctor Who at the mercy of the fans. Usually the worst are those who preface an inevitable pedantic point with how many years they have followed the show. Given, when it comes down to it, Who is (admittedly an above-average) television programme and not a religious text the majority of fandom really need to take a close look at themselves. There again we've all grown up with the show and its attendant press/fan/previous production team criticisms. More has been written about it that any other TV programme so it's part and parcel of the thing that we have an opinion, even more so in the age of Facebook and Twitter where we seemingly MUST have an opinion on everything.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By MrLeeArnott 1 January 26, 2012 07:03:30 PM

Reading forums used to fill me with rage so had to stop reading them about two years ago. Witnessed the whole horror of mob fandom at a low-key convention a couple of months back when an 80s actor remarked that 'new who wasn't the same show,' to which the baying, whooping cries from certain sections of the audience were a bit too Jeremy Kyle and close to burning pitchforks for my liking. This article is superb and not before time.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By daftideasinc 1 January 26, 2012 07:12:05 PM

@TARDInSexy "@ TARDInSexy "[T]heir views are ABSOLUTELY NOT worth hearing unless they represent a majority (something impossible to determine given how vocal trolls are)." That pretty much reads as a mission statement for your perceived mandate to censure Prabha and his opinions. I think he has been incredibly tolerant all things considered. I haven't seen anything in his comments that can be reduced to personal attacks upon you. Indeed, he has been perfectly willing to engage you in dialogue, yet you continue to insist upon his censure. It's easy, if you don't like his comments, don't read his posts (they are after all conveniently tagged for easy reference). You start to come off sounding like Mary Whitehouse, I'd better watch (read) to be offended. I don't think there are many people on here, including myself, who haven't at one time thought we owned the internet, but it's up to us to have the humility to recognize the behaviour when it presents itself. Does that sound reasonable? *** Assumed Prabha is a guy.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By Coleberg 1 January 26, 2012 07:21:25 PM

In my experience every view is valid, you just have to take into account the context to determine how important it is (and whether or not there is an issue is not a question of how many people DON'T have the same issue). I get frustrated by producers and other fans sticking their fingers in their ears and not listening to any criticisms, just as I get sick of people endlessly shouting the same abuse over and over again without giving a basis. But the fans' opinions are always worth listening to if not always worth following. After all, they'll be the ones keeping it on the air after Michael Grade 2.0.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By TARDInSexy 1 January 26, 2012 07:53:48 PM

And they'll be the ones not listening to the next batch of fans. You can't listen to the fans, you'd go insane. That said next series is going to be less arc based, Moffat has already confirmed that when the Daleks come back it will include the previous style rather than the iDaleks. They pay attention to the general consensus, they just don't list to individual c***s, which is how it should be. @daftideasinc no, that doesn't sound reasonable as I was referring to what the producers should pay attention to. Fan debate will always continue, both postive and negative. My issue with prabha has been without exception that he has frequently belittled counter opinons, made claims like "sci-fi fans prefer the RTD era" which are both insulting and impossible to counter. He attempts to paint his personal opinions as the majority. He's entitled to his vote, his opinion, he doesn't get anyone elses. If you think I have been intolerant of such behaviour... it is because I am intolerant of it, I have no issue with people expressing their *opinion* so long as they don't project it on to others, state it as fact or attempt to ridicule the counterview, all of which I've seen him do.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By Lara5 1 January 26, 2012 07:55:28 PM

Really good article, basically expressed how i feel. I dropped out of the DW forums a couple of years ago after becoming tired of the same old arguements over and over and over again.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By TARDInSexy 1 January 26, 2012 08:08:52 PM

@daftideasinc made the mistake of googling your past history and saw a message from you aimed at me I hadn't before. Essentially saying I shouldn't be enjoying the show in its present form and should go listen to Big Finish instead, DW is for "family friendly" episodes like Love and Monsters... For the record I'm still a fan of the same episodes as when I was a child, my tastes haven't changed much, I never enjoyed toilet humour and jokes pitched at that kind of level. I do however enjoy the child-like joy of the show (which Smith helps capture wonderfully), it's that energy that keeps the show fresh. So being told *why* I like something, and that it's *wrong* is one of the issues I took with prabha so forgive me if I don't take kindly to your not dissimilar tactics.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By rottenjohnny 1 January 26, 2012 10:18:00 PM

No, Michael Grade is. But obsessive and vitriolic fandom comes a close 2nd. Quite often those who claim to love the show are far, far more critical of it than people who simply don't watch it. Just watched Room 101, although Fern is actually quite a nice woman she came off as a prize berk for her anti-sci fi views. Particularly when she is a guest on a TV show, inspired by a sci-fi novel that was set in the near future, which is now the near-past.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By Lardekfan 1 January 26, 2012 10:19:12 PM

Good article. Sometimes our fellow fans do go overboard. And god help you if you disagree with some of them. Youtube fans of Who seem to love tearing each other apart.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By gbollard 1 January 26, 2012 10:36:59 PM

It's the reason I don't refer to myself as a fan. I love DW and probably obsess over it but I'm not "fanatical". If I don't like a new doctor then I simply give it time. If I don't like a particular story, then I just accept it for what it is and move on. Only fanatics take these things into the real world.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By paulychilds 1 January 26, 2012 11:23:59 PM

We, as science fiction geeks, are not as bad as a recent fandom phenomenom - the Beliebers. We may moan on forums, start a Twitter campaign and even, when suitable irked, write to the makers of the program (such as following the Graham Norton Cartoon Scandal) to register our disgust but we don't send death threats to comedians who mock our favourite shows.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By daftideasinc 1 January 26, 2012 11:58:00 PM

@TARDInSexy "My issue with Prabha has been without exception that he has frequently belittled counter opinons, made claims like "sci-fi fans prefer the RTD era" which are both insulting and impossible to counter". Then don't, ignore him. Simple as. I'd imagine elsewhere you would have been flamed for some of your own responses in return. What goes around usually comes around online, usally at an alarming rate. Everyone ignores Disrespective's occassional missives here without hassle, yet you bite everytime when Prabha reinterates his own point of view. You were obviously stung by my response, hence your post to quote me out of context Re: Big Finish. That's fine, I'm big and ugly enough. The internet is not so interpersonal when someome has something to say pointedly about one's own behaviour. It's no longer a game. It's fight or flight response in full animated comic motion glory. Would you like to be accused of being a troll? No? So when does irony kick in when you insist others online are trolls? One, three, ten times? Despite making many valid points over the course Tardis, do I really have to glaze over everytime you post online? Do I really have to associate your comments alongside Dissrespectives for intemperance? Now that would be a shame.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By TARDInSexy 1 January 27, 2012 12:55:39 AM

You are welcome to do so. Your language suggested you knew me so I googled your previous comments, that is what I found. And personally I see some irony, given the the comment you were responding to, in your ascribing my post false motivations. It has honestly crossed my mind that you are simply a second account, I wouldn't bank my life on it but I am starting to consider it likely enough that I feel foolish for responding to you.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By daftideasinc 1 January 27, 2012 07:57:32 AM

@TARDInSexy Paranoia is a curious thing. You want to believe I am someone you may have injured in the past, rather than believe I'm someone who doesn't like to see other people being unfairly harrassed. I've made my point so now I'll disengage for fear of being tarred with the same brush.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By NickD 1 January 27, 2012 08:55:25 AM

I think that there's a lot of truth in there... A lot I didn't know... For example the Fern Britain debacle. In my defence I was *probably* watching Lethal Weapon on itv4 or a Doctor Who DVD :) There are fans like that... A lot of them, but like pedophiles, rapists, murderers, racist football fans, they are thankfully a minority. For example I think the new Spider-Man outfit is awful... Does it ruin my life, or make me want to see the film any less? No. It looks good in the 'action scenes' photos. If I was unsure about a film... Like say Prometheus or the PG13 Expendables 2 I'd reserve it until I've actually seen the film. I loved the Star Wars Clone Wars film in cinemas a few years back... I actually preferred episode 1 over episode 3.... I may have thought the older films were far better... But did I have my live of star wars destroyed? No I just enjoyed the new trilogy less. What I'm trying to articulate... Poorly is these idiots are just a tired joke. Most WHO fans love Doctor Who totally and rightly regard fans like this as a rather embarrassing relative... One to be loved and pitied... And ultimately ignored. :)

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By SpiritMuse 1 January 27, 2012 09:43:29 AM

I have, over the years, drifted in and out of many different fandoms. I've seen people like and dislike, praise and criticise... But never before have I seen a fandom that directs such complete, unadulterated *hatred* towards the thing which is supposedly the object of their affection. Never before have I seen a fandom that directs *death threats* to its show's writers when they simply don't like an episode. Never before have I seen a fandom where people felt so incredibly *entitled*, as if it were a basic human right to have the show be *exactly* what *they* want it to be - and of course every single one of them wants something different. So I've learned not to talk about Doctor Who with other fans. Because as much as I love to share and talk about the things I like, whenever I tried to do so on a Doctor Who fan forum, I was met with not enthusiasm, but hate and disapproval. People trying to make me feel inferior for not sharing their opinion. And it was starting to take away my enjoyment of the show. That's right - I enjoyed the show less because the "fans" made me feel stupid about liking it. So I got out of there as quickly as I could. The truth is, no show can ever be 100% perfectly what you want. There will always be parts of it you might not like. Episodes that aren't as good, or that deal with things you aren't interested in. Characters that are just a bit too annoying. No matter how good it is, it will never be perfect. That's just the way it is. Deal with it. And the great thing about Doctor Who? It's like the weather - if you don't like it, wait a while and it'll change.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By TARDInSexy 1 January 27, 2012 10:18:05 AM

@daftideasinc that makes 3 posts in a row where you've told me what my motivation is for my posts in order to discredit them. At least you're consistent.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By OldBadger 1 January 27, 2012 10:50:47 AM

I finally looked up Fern Britton. Is there a reason why we should care what she thinks about Doctor Who or SF? What I want to know is why the BBC wasted my licence fee on asking her in the first place.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By TARDInSexy 1 January 27, 2012 11:01:29 AM

OldBadger, it was room 101, it's just a comedy show. We shouldn't care, it's only meant to be amusing. I think Fern missed the mark there (fortunately Webb made up for it by putting his bald spot in) but it's not something anyone should care about.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By DrBell 1 January 27, 2012 02:16:10 PM

May I propose 3 rules for Civilly and Reasonably Critiquing Doctor Who? (1) Don't call anyone names. Period. If you think of an extremely clever one, you really mustn't use it. (2) Don't attempt to read anyone's mind, attribute motivations to them or categorize their tastes. (3) Judge the episode in question according to what it was trying to achieve, not according to what you think it should have been trying to do.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By TARDInSexy 1 January 27, 2012 02:30:04 PM

@DrBell - That's probably a good list. Sorry if I ran afoul of #1.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By Philipschofield 1 January 27, 2012 03:54:47 PM

Never mind all of this bollocks about Fern Britton and rules. All I want to know is, what arsehole had the audacity to called Sylv a cunt?

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By CybexAl 1 January 27, 2012 11:56:30 PM

Doctor Who is probably the greatest TV show ever made. Matt Smith's interpretation is one of the strongest in the shows history. Mr. Moffat is probably the best show runner in the shows history. The quality of the writing, direction, SFX is amongst the best it has ever had. The fans know this. Even the trolls know it. A friend of mine once told me 'the opposite of love is indifference.' Have you met any indifferent Who fans? Nah, thought so.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By rottenjohnny 1 January 28, 2012 01:26:03 AM

Enough with the bitterness. Here's a German girl building her own Tardis. http://youtu.be/rtWUrJU46M8

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By Cuckoo 1 January 28, 2012 02:41:56 PM

I wouldn't worry about Fern Britton. Doctor Who isn't sci-fi anyway, it's fantasy. Sci-Fi is at the very least plausible, Doctor Who is never this. It's Fantasy for children, and I can't possibly hope to understand why so many people love this utter tripe.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By paulychilds 1 January 28, 2012 09:40:47 PM

Nice try Cuckoo. Real subtle ;-)

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By Damien 1 January 29, 2012 04:28:30 AM

The problem with new Who is that the meat of the scripts is mostly rubbish, while the execution and emotion is often well executed. By that I mean, rarely can the writers resolve the plot/premise in an intellectually satisfying and self consistent way. Too often the explanation is so weak as to be non-existent or it's glossed over by a rapid-fire, unintelligible barrage of verbiage from the Doctor. This effectively means - focus on the first half hour or so, be engrossed in a tense developing mystery laced with emotional undercurrents and touches of humour, but please don't pay too much attention as to why all this took place, because it won't make much sense, or there will be some 'magic' resolution. This is why I'm consistently disappointed with new who. And it's just a copout IMO that the standard defense is - oh, it's just a kids show, so it doesn't have to make sense. Kids don't like being talked down to and neither does the large demographic of older scifi fans that form a big chunk of the viewing audience.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By TARDInSexy 1 January 29, 2012 11:14:21 AM

@Damien you make a fair point, but that's one of the things I (and I imagine many other people) enjoy about Moffats work, the solution comes from one of two staples 1) A unique situation whereby the cause of the problem offers up a solution: eg. The Empty Child, Blink, Time of Angels, The Impossible Astronaut. 2) Understanding of the situation helps to correct it: The Beast Below, Silence in the library. I think the big finales/ mid season episodes still suffer from the problem you describe, but since Moffat took over that's a problem which has decreased significantly (although admittedly not in Gareth Roberts scripts which are all solved by love...).

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By eckesg1 1 January 30, 2012 01:12:21 AM

Damien Remember, people started complaining about Moffat's plots being too complicated. Makes you wonder if the program's changes are because of the audience's changes.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By Damien 1 January 30, 2012 03:02:37 AM

eckesg1, I wasn't speaking to the complexity or simplicity of plots. There is nothing inherently wrong with either end of the scale. What's at issue, at least for me, is that when it comes to the part in the episode where the plot threads are explained/revealed, it often falls flat - it either makes no logical sense, exposes earlier major plot-holes, is laughed away in technobabble or is conveniently solved by means of deus ex machina. Some people are willing to overlook the reasons WHY things happen, often gushing 'what a rollicking romp' and the like (cringe), but it bugs the heck out of me! I hate it when things are dumbed down, either intentionally or through incompetence!

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By TARDInSexy 1 January 30, 2012 11:19:12 AM

@Damien surely that's on and off issue though, there are certainly some classic stories which suffer from that failing, and some new series ones. I'd say the new series was worse for it though, especially series 2-4.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By smolemon 1 January 30, 2012 11:25:55 AM

I said I really didn't enjoy the inbetweeners movie on DoG and got a load of abuse off some brat. Why do people get so annoyed by other peoples opinions? It makes no sense. I like something, you don't or viceversa - tell me why you liked it or not and I'm interested but don't personally attack someone for having conflicting views.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By waterflame 1 January 31, 2012 01:31:35 AM

The worst fans are the ones who insist that Rose was the best companion ever, and the Doctor never loved anyone the way he loved her, and he could never love anyone else ever again. These are the fans who have no real concept of how the original series went, and see the show as more of a sci-fi soap opera. And, in my experience, they have no patience for any other argument.

Re: Are Doctor Who’s fans the show's worst enemy?
Posted By Headache2112 1 February 3, 2012 10:35:58 PM

"Are Doctor Who's fans the show's worst enemy?" - - - - - I'll get you yet, "Doctor Who" TV show! BWAH-HAH-HAH-HAH-HAH!
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