Doctor Who: The Snowmen review

Review Simon Brew 25 Dec 2012 - 18:15

Here's our spoiler-filled review of the Doctor Who Christmas special, The Snowmen, starring Matt Smith and Jenna-Louise Coleman...

This review contains spoilers. Our spoiler-free review is here.

The Snowmen

If you were looking for clues that Steven Moffat was taking this year’s Doctor Who Christmas special, The Snowmen, as an opportunity to do a bit of freshening up in advance of the show’s 50th anniversary year, you really didn’t have to wait long. A brand new title sequence, with a splash of Matt Smith, and a revised theme tune as well, suggested early on that things had changed a little. Later in the episode, the now well-publicised TARDIS redesign had been demonstrated too, with more than a nod to 70s and 80s Who in the console room.

Furthermore, by the time the credits rolled on the least-Christmassy Christmas special in the revived Doctor Who’s history, it was equally clear that sizeable plot threads had already been laid for the episodes that lie ahead in 2013. There was a lot to get your teeth into.

What, for instance, is the G.I., the Great Intelligence of the episode? Well, fans of classic Who will already know the answer, as Moffat has delved into the history of the show to reintroduce a formidable foe. Having previously appeared in The Abominable Snowman and The Web Of Fear (from the Patrick Troughton era), the Great Intelligence is a being who needs to find a physical form. Crucially, he survives The Snowmen, and you can’t help but suspect a further reappearance is on the cards. A shame we won’t get the ultimately frosty Richard E Grant again though. He was wonderfully sinister in a role that could easily have descended into panto villain, adding a creepy element to an already strong episode.

He, or the Great Intelligence, won’t be the main talking point here though. Instead, after another hour in her company, the mystery over Jenna-Louise Coleman’s new companion has deepened. Steven Moffat had already pulled a surprise in Asylum Of The Daleks, by revealing her apparent fate as a Dalek. This time, bluntly, he kills her. Moffat has thus taken the introduction of a new major character, and shrouded her in questions and mystery. Coleman is doing her part too, and there's already plenty to explore.

We warmed to Jenna-Louise Coleman a lot. Whereas Matt Smith’s Doctor was quite a calm, subdued figure for much of The Snowmen, it was Coleman’s inquisitive Clara who was left to do good chunks of what's usually his work. Where the Doctor would ordinarily be intrigued, she was. And whilst the Doctor was trying to retire, shaken by the events of The Angels Take Manhattan, Clara was the opposite. Interestingly, even in this episode she had a clear dual role. And more interestingly than that, even within this episode she seems to know too much. This isn't a Doctor Who companion where the life of the Doctor is a complete surprise. Why is that, we wonder?

As for the Doctor himself, there are questions there too. Steven Moffat had admitted that he took some inspiration from the never-made Douglas Adams Doctor Who pitch, The Doctor Retires. As such, it's a sullen, lonely and withdrawn Doctor that we meet in the early stages. Clearly hurt and hit by the impact of the aforementioned The Angels Take Manhattan - and the clear suggestion is that some time has passed since then - we still nonetheless find a Doctor who can't completely detach from his role in the universe. Hence, the welcome reappearance - and surely this is the next Who spin-off in the offing - of Madame Vastra, Jenny, and Strax the Sontaran.

Which brings us to the funniest parts of The Snowmen. Moffat has a whale of a time with the comedy here, lightening the middle of the story with some very, very funny moments. The memory worm, for instance, and the way that he's turned the once-sinister Sontaran into a brilliant comedy sidekick.

The comedic highlight though was pretty much without question.

Steven Moffat's gift-wrapped gift to fans of his two big shows arrived in real style, as Matt Smith tried out the world of Sherlock Holmes. Well written, and beautifully played, all we need now is for Benedict Cumberbatch to turn up as The Master, and a nerdy Venn diagram is complete (throw in the tease of 'winter is coming' as well, and we couldn't help but dream of a Game Of Thrones crossover).

The comedy was well judged in particular, as it added welcome chuckles to a Christmas special that was darker in tone than we've come to expect. After all, there's a sadness at the heart of Smith's performance in The Snowmen, that only seems to lift near the end when he realises that there's a brilliant mystery to get to the bottom of. Until then, it seemed that the Doctor was going to have to deal with losing Amy and Rory, and killing Clara - or Clara Oswin Oswald to give her her full name - all in the space of two episodes.

Perhaps inevitably, with all this groundwork being developed, the actual main story itself felt just a little less interesting (even though we did get the booming voice of Ian McKellen in Doctor Who, hopefully not for the last time). The Snowmen had their sinister moments certainly (they weren't in it that much though), but we were far more interested in finding out how the relationship and dynamic between the Doctor and Clara was going to develop (and her secret recipe for souffles). Furthermore, the one moment that fell just a little flat was the icy governess, which didn't really convince. We'd have loved a bit more time with the wonderful Richard E Grant too.

For now though, we got lots of things here, in what was a very strong Yuletide outing. We've got a show that's just slightly altered course, both with the introduction of a new main character, and the slightly different approach to the world of the Doctor. We got a gorgeous-looking episode, with some terrific production design and tightly measured direction. And we got a Christmas special that was willing to try something just a little different, and be rewarded for it. And we got the Sherlock moments too. Just priceless.

It's full steam ahead then, with threads we can't wait to be explored already being laid in place for 2013. The Snowmen ends Doctor Who's 2012 on a high, and by the looks of the trailer for what lies ahead, there are some sizeable treats being lined up for when the show returns in April.

A very happy Christmas to you all...!

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Brilliant episode! The second death of Clara was unexpected and a great twist so it's not another River Song backwards relationship as people thought (feared?)

50th Anniversary of Doctor Who is 23rd November 2013. Clara/Oswald was born on 23rd November. Damm you Moffat what are you upto?

When did Doctor Who stop being clever? When did such overly sentimental rubbish become a GOOD explanation for an episodes puzzle? Bloody hell..

Sentimentality isn't something I'm devoid of. My cynical interior doesn't grow uncomfortable just because a scene is a little squishy, but this was just beyond ridiculous. The tears of a family on Christmas Eve, I mean dear god. What? Let's ignore how implausible to the plot this is for now, and focus on the fact this was some kind of misplaced, blatant attempt to warm the freaking cockles of my heart. If anything was going to top last years “the power of a mothers love” vomit fest, it was probably this. I love Doctor Who. It's without a doubt my favourite show, and has been since 2005, when my 13 year old self first watched Eccleston, but UGH.. At least we had the interesting Clara sub-plot – I'm looking forwards to seeing where it goes. I hope it's a good explanation, and isn't..oh, I don't know..A dream a sweet pigtailed little girl is having, because apparently that's what Doctor Who is about now.

Anyway. Had good bits, liked the obvious spin-off show crew, and I snorted heartily at the Sherlock Holmes bit. No taps of Lemonade, that was a plus.

*Waves sonic screwdriver over the puddle of ice quite obviously melting through the floor, because that's what water does*
“It's melting through the floor.. Now let me turn on my anti-frost setting, because that's what I do now.”

I have to admit I enjoyed this year's special more than I have any in the last couple of years. The Victorian tone really made it for me and the creepiness worked well. The pacing was balanced. Just when it started getting a little too childish, in came a welcome slap of reality. Some excellent performances, especially Jenna Louise Coleman who just has such an infectious and effervescent presence that endears her more so than her cynical and cold predecessor. Her character's going to be a joy to watch... which of course raises some other questions altogether. The new 'who is Oswin/Clara?' arc has hopefully been refined from the whole River Song episode and everyone's learned their lesson from just how tedious and obvious that actually became. Keep the mystery going but do it subtly please so that when we do get the big reveal, it does actually take our breath away... roll on the spring...

I enjoyed it. I thought JLC was gonna do my nut in after seeing her in the Dalek ep, but took to her in this. My usual niggle for the Christmas episode is the music. It's constant, and tramples over the dialogue. If the music is constant then it loses its impact for when it's really needed. I know the Christmas specials are 'bigger', and Murray Gold can do a great job, but too much music gets on my nips.

Liked the titles, and cheered when they finally did a proper walk from outside to inside the Tardis. (30 Years In The Tardis doesn't count!)

Please , have you never read Batman RIP . HE even makes his memories weapons . It's an emotional parasite , if its not prepared for a type of emotion it dies . It;s peopel attitdues to certain ideas that cause the issue . Clever and well though out .

Bloody good episode. I must admit that the new console room looks great- the publicity photos made it look bloody awful to be honest. Love the new opening sequence. And we got an episode that was atmospheric, funny, mysterious and just downright good. Sad to say, but the Doctor Who Christmas Special usually makes or breaks my Christmas Night. This year, it really made it. Well done Moff!

No. You're creating your own explanation in order to continue believing this episode was in some way intelligent. Of course I understand that concept, you see it all the time. Moffat has even used something very similar before, when the Doctor tricked Prisoner Zero, which wasn't emotions, but was the same thing you're talking about.

This wasn't that. What this was, and what it implied, was that between the young Richard E Grant finding the snow and the end of the episode, the only thing powerful enough to divert its attention fully was the family crying on Christmas eve. The snow had not changed in any way. If a family cried on any Christmas Eve prior to the Doctor getting involved, the snow would supposedly have turned to tears. Lazy ending.

Feel free to correct me. I just didn't hear anything in the episode that described anything otherwise, but I hope I missed something. I thought that maybe the family were at some kind of epicentre, or that the GI was at some sensitive point, but it doesn't seem that way. Basically, you're just supposed to stop thinking logically, and say "Awwh..".

Humbug! Humbug! Humbug Mr Baldrick?

Couldn't help thinking of South Park... So is "Kenny" Oswin Oswald going to be killed off in every episode from now on? That could be good fun!

My understanding was that it was the first time since the initial meeting that there was that much "memory snow" in one place that was outside the GI institute, which is why only that family at that time could affect it and not just any family at any time. Plus 1 person versus 5 or 6, there would be no competition really.

Anyway just a thought, I liked it and even at its weakest it was better than any of the RTD specials.

The big reveal of the TARDIS interior saw me with a tear in my eye. Not in a bad way, but not in a good way specific to the design itself (although I do like it). Just a sense of 'THIS is the show I have loved all my life. Long may it continue'. I really hope I live to 86, just to see the build-up to the 100th. They'll probably be able to clone Hartnell by then. I'm getting off point. Anyway, liked it a lot.

Haha, nice, was thinking something similar. At least it gives Rory a reprieve.

She's the new Rory.

Too right. The music has been a real annoyance since the series returned - too loud and too much of it. To me, the bombastic, over-orchestrated score just doesn't work, and don't get me started on how they've wrecked the other-worldly, alien feel of the title theme. Oh for the glory days of Delia Derbyshire...

"Perhaps inevitably, with all this groundwork being developed, the actual main story itself felt just a little less interesting"

That's Moffat in a nutshell. The episode you're actually watching at the moment is a hastily contrived afterthought; all his attention is on the next mystery he's laying the groundwork for. But unfortunately, when we get to that being revealed, it will also be an unsatisfying, hastily contrived afterthought because all his attention by then will be on teasing the NEXT big mystery. We're still waiting for answers to questions from two series ago! Fortunately for him, people keep forgetting how disappointed they were last time and keep telling themselves THIS will be the one that works.

So much to like about this episode.

This is how Who should be. It didn't feel nearly as dumbed down as most of the episodes did this year. Yeah, okay the resolution was a little too Christmassy, but for nearly the whole episode you felt the emotional impact of the Pond's fate and what it would take to pull the Doctor back from the brink.

Mme Vastra, Jenny and Strax's return was great, not just for the comedy, but to remind us that the Dr has friends who are still there for him and will protect him until he's ready to get back on his feet.

Clara. Woah! I liked her in Asylum but this was subtly different enough to convince me she will be entertaining to follow. As for her mystery, at first I thought about the references to her birth and time and that she was 'The Governess' made her a lost timelord, but I was glad to see my guess following Asylum was near enough spot on and she's actually more or less the same person re-appearing through time.

Looking forward to the new series much more than I was before,.

"even at its weakest it was better than any of the RTD specials"

Very true!

I thought mister potatoe head stole the show,his comic timing was brilliant !!!

It wasn't JUST "the power of emotion". It wasn't out of the blue, we already knew the snow had some kind of telepathic field and it mirrored thoughts and emotions around it. The snow was all concentrated around the house, and seven people started crying there, so the snow mirrored them.

It's not like, I don't know, a lot of people yelling "Doctor!" somehow giving him magical powers to defeat evil.

I nearly wept that day. Fricking Jesus Doctor.... Then the Flash Gordon ring lift.. I think I actually shouted some rude words at my tv that day :D

Unsure if that was an episode of Doctor Who or an acid trip gone wrong.

I think i will . Grief is a very powerful emotion . Such an outpouring in a localised area (if i follow the logic of the episode ) is as powerful as Richard E Grants lust for power/acceptance etc . ergo why why in the logic of teh episode it would work . As mentioned else where the GI is a refernce to an older character . But it is still an emotional parasite . Overfeed it "vomits" or is consumed by the "food" it reserves . To be fair I would prefer the Doctor destroying ot out of hand bit some parts of modern who require we relate to a 1000 (or 1 million year old if you remember the older cannon ) year old alien ?? .

"Hello. I am a lizard woman from the dawn of time and this is my wife."

A Christmas episode that didn't suck? The was unexpected.

I liked this episode but still prefer A Christmas Carrol, although it's much better than The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe.

As for the Tardis interior, I'm really not liking all that much. Maybe it'll grow on me like most do, but the RTD era interior never did, so who knows. The only interior I immediately fell for was the last one, the one that premiered in season 5.

Agreed. As much as I like the new companion, I think they missed a trick there. He had brilliant chemistry with Smith, their scenes together were a joy.

You're missing the biggest problem, how in the world can snowmen, or ice creatures be a threat to the entire world? What about warm climate places and season changes? Yeah, there was that scene of the snow making the room colder but cooling one room in the middle of fall is different from cooling down an entire world. This actually made it hard for me to feel as though the villain in this episode was a threat.

As for the over sentimentality, that's a problem I have too, but I easily look beyond it.

That's even acknowledged in the script though as the Doctor actually tells the intelligence it needs a better plan to threaten humanity.All kinds of goodness in this special with Moffat elaborating on Adams' rejected 'The Doctor Retires' concept and writing Strax like a sontaran version of Duggan.Zaroff levels of villainous hamminess emanating from Richard E Grant.Jenna Louise rocking period costume and the Doctor recovering his mojo post Ponds by being forced to instantly confront the same situation with somebody else he hands his key over to.Welcoming the return of The Great Intelligence and hoping for some eventual explanation of it's origin and interest in Earth.Hope Sir Ian Mc Kellan was impressed with the final production.Smith and Coleman looking great and a good team.

That was the best Christmas special,since the Christmas Invasion. For a number of reasons, mostly because Christmas was kept in the background. It felt more like the start of a new season. New companion, and new Tardis.....Ahhh the new Tardis set.
It now looks like the Tardis again inside, and not a load of crap stuck on a mushroom. The time rotor!!!! IT ROTATES!!!! All those rings looked fab, and then there was the lights following around the room top, and light up roundels that change colour and glow, and the light can be changed...dark, then green , blue, then well lit. It looked like Mcganns slightly the arched girders....Did anyone notice if those blue glowing tubes moved as well??? I need to watch it again. All it needs is a bit of dressing, an old chair, or the hatstand again to help it along...
It was good....Strax was funny and sweet. When I was a kid I used to wonder...What if the Doctor met a friendly monster?
Clara was great...what is going on there? Mat Smith ruled as ever, and the only downside I could see was the actual story itself, what was going on, took a back seat to all the rest. I HATED the lesbian agenda with Vastra...sick of the BBC sneaking in all the stuff for gays / politcally correct crap, when Doctor Who is not the place for it. I was hoping we had seen the last of that when RTD left...It must be written into the show runners contract. I dont care if people disagree and flame me for it.
There is a rumour that Clara falls for Vastra next year..thats all we need..
My ongoing gripe is that we now have to wait until April for more. I want Doctor Who back for 12 episodes NOW.
G.I. Great intelligence.....wonder if we might get the Yeti back next year? I have a feeling it may not be the last we see of it, and ties into Smiths Troughton love / vibe...Anyway, I loved it, and so did the rest of my family who watched it with me, wife included. I cant wait for Cybermen and some answers or not, regarding Clara....should be good....we better get more than eight episodes and one special though, or I am tearing up my license and sending the scraps back to he BBC in Tardis envelope..............

It will probably take a little time to warm to the new theme and TARDIS interior when I just got used to the old one, but Moffat has done it again. Not just a Christmas special, but the introduction of a long-term plot arc mystery in the return of soufflé girl and her second death, which according to the Doctor and the trailer for the rest of the season should not be possible... Add to that what appears to be icebergs and the Titanic and I believe that snow will return.

Could that calling card also be an ambigram GI of "Great Intelligence" becomes "ID"...

I don't want to nitpick, but Delia didn't do incidental music. She only did the arrangement for the titles. The music in the background was stock up until Pertwee I believe, when the BBC could get synths that weren't the size of Durham and just as expensive.

Hit and miss. When it hit, it really did. Strax was superb and would make a great full time companion. Jenna Louise Coleman really did well and I think will be excellent. Likewise E Grant did all he could. Visually brilliant. Loved the New start. The misses were again the plot, which creeked. The Dr wants to be alone...but makes sure he has three companions to nag him. E Grant's villain was ill thought out. The Snowmen brilliant, but so under-used. The Great Intelligence had a silly plan. The tardis makeover reminded me a lot of the old series, in that it looked a lot cheaper than the previous two incarnations. A mistake. However it's more hit than miss. In someways it reminded me of Rose, another episode with a daft master plan by a supposed intelligence. That set the scene perfectly.

So, the best of the 11th dr Christmas specials, but we need some closure who exploded the tardis; who are the silence really? Who knows, but I can't wait to find out. What I liked best is that the energy and excitement is still there. Compare series 7 Who with say Buffy, which was getting tired. Oh regeneration! Such a clever device.

Agreed on the ending

You noticed that did you? There are other things.

Her age at death: 26; the same age that the classic series was cancelled at.

Brilliant episode, well balanced comedy... but I can't help wondering where the crack has gotten to and who it is that hijacked the TARDIS? Seems to have been completely forgotten 0_o

Live the new intro sequence. Looks more timey-whimey and adventurous. Don't know if it is deliberate, but it reminds me of the intro to "Superman Returns". Love the nebulae forming the likeness of Matt Smith. A call back to the intros of Doctors gone by. While I am a great fan of Murray Gold's adaptation of the theme used in Series 5, 6 and 7. This new version sounds more history laden and definitely retro as well.

Loved it!


I enjoyed it as a light hearted episode, the humour was good, the so called plan was addressed as at fault by the Doctor but what spoiled it for me was the damn continuity errors...
Twice the spiral staircase was ascended in a clockwise direction and twice it was shown descending... in a clockwise direction... This simple error totally blew all believability for me. (Reminded me of the first Amy Pond episode where the TARDIS doors opened outwards when it landed on it's side in the garden.) Yes it was a simple mistake but one that should not be happening in a show this big, even more galling when the snow is more realistic than that in a blockbuster such as The Dark Knight Rises. ( another thread entirely.... )

Lesbian agenda? I was far more worried by the reptilian agenda. How dare those politically correct, Guardian-munching, muesli-reading communists at the BBC corrupt our innocent youngsters with the sickening idea that a human can have a loving, long-term relationship with a lizard. If my little girl ends up marrying a gecko, I'll know exactly where the blame lies. David Icke must be livid.

The point is that the snow doesn't melt: that's how the Doctor knew the pond had something tricksy about it. Even when the 'real' snow disappeared, the mind-snow sticks around (it's not affected by temperature, only by emotions or psychic signatures or whatever it was), so it could definitely mess up some people in the Caribbean.

When you say you are "sick of the BBC sneaking in all the stuff for gays / politcally correct crap", do you mean that you are sick of the BBC reflecting on the fact (openly and not in any kind of sneaky way) that a minority of the population are actually gay, and so to be an honest and truly representative service 'for the people', it must present a minority of the people it features as also being gay?

You say that you "HATED the lesbian agenda with Vastra". Was there an agenda? As in a gay relationship/gay marriage 'agenda'? She was openly one half of a married gay couple, whereas the majority of couples since 2005 have been explicity not gay - in RTD's tenure as well as in Moffat's. Amy and Rory were in a relationship and then got married so is there also a straight marriage 'agenda' in Doctor Who? Madame Vastra was also half of a human/Silurian couple. Does that mean there was an 'agenda' to encourage cross species marriages? Well, obviously no, it seems unlikely that any of those specific 'agendas' actually exist in Doctor Who beyond what is projected on to it by viewers with their own agendas and axes to grind. I can only speak for myself, but I was a man who is sexually attracted to human women and respected the basic human right to live free from prejudice and persecution before watching the episode and as far as I can tell, I still am. But if anyone is claiming to have been 'turned' from homophobe to gay by watching BBC television I'd be fascinated to hear about it. The only 'agenda' in Doctor Who would appear to be to present audiences with characters that are recognisable to viewers from various walks of life and then to put them in all manner of perilous and fantastical situations. And above all to entertain.

Please don't take this as a 'flaming' because that is not my intent. I actually like the majority of your comment, but since I would defend your right to freely voice your opinions, I by the same token also reserve the right to freely respond to any of them if I believe them to contain ungrounded or fallacious arguments or if they are particularly offensive to anyone with a basic levels of empathy and human decency. Most that read your thoughts will probably conclude that saying you "HATED the lesbian agenda with Vastra" and that you are "sick of the BBC sneaking in all the stuff for gays / politcally correct crap", is symptomatic of you HATING the fact that lesbians and gays even exist and that anything less than agreement with that sentiment is what you choose to call "politically correct crap". Why should it worry any sexually mature self confident straight person that not everybody shares the same sexual orientation and lifestyle as them? If gay audience members are not complaining about the overwhelming majority of straight people in the BBC schedules and interpreting that as an 'agenda' or a personal affront, is it not only courteous to do the same in return? If they did that, I would also challenge the foundation of that view and question how firm a grasp they had on the nature of the species they belong to and the reality of the actual world they exist in.

“Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.”

Philip K. Dick

Great post.Well Done.I have to say Davros' agenda complaint was very disappointing and not very festive especially considering how he wouldn't be watching new Doctor Who now, if not for RTD.It really shouldn't matter.

Could the light moment in this one be the flickering candle as the kids and the nanny are sat on the bed and the ice lady appears ?

The cracks were fixed in the Series 5 finale and they said in the same episode that The Silence hijacked the TARDIS. The question that was left at the end of that series was Who are The Silence, which was explained throughout series six, which also involved The Silence's second attempt to kill The Doctor, which we see in The Impossible Astronaut.

They weren't forgotten, they were just explained very quickly in bits and pieces in different episodes.

Did you even watch the episode? Their entire plan was to find a way to survive even without the cold.

The Moff must read Den Of Geek - I distinctly recall a "Ten Things We'd Like To See On Dr Who" article that (among other things) suggested a continuous shot that follows the Dr (or anybody, really) from clearly outside the TARDIS, standing isolated in an obviously open space, into the interior. Well, there, it was in this episode :-)

No one has mentioned the semblance to Mary Poppins....

That was the point of creating the ice woman - the snow people couldn't actually pose a threat in any season other than winter, so they needed to make a new form that could. The ice woman didn't melt under traditional circumstances, so applying what made her special would have allowed them to be a threat.

Good stuff - pity the theme music still has that annoying bit at the start and still isn't either scary or spooky (bring back the hissing!)

Absolutely loved the episode, but I have one, absolutely huge problem ... Where was the hatstand? The TARDIS needs a hatstand! (or did I just miss it?)

haha you noticed that too?

"Taller on the inside" and "Smaller on the outside" Simply brilliant lines!

Thanks for that. Perhaps the moniker is quite telling, Davros was afterall not the most tolerant of individuals. Perhaps he'll be a recurring villain and we can expect an irate tirade against the rest of the universe sometime soon...

I really enjoyed the whole episode the Sherlock bit was a nice touch I thought the bit with Richard E Grant covered in ice freezing up the Doctor was brilliantly scary, Jenna was spot on even though it does seem that the Doctor cant just meet a normal girl anymore. This was a definite improvement for the show the new titles and TARDIS and the Doctors new costume made the whole thing feel fresh and exciting, couldnt help feeling that the last 5 episodes with the Ponds were slightly unnessecary the Doctor may well have gone into hiding after faking his death the Ponds farewell in series 6 was good enough, lets hope the quality continues into the 50th year!

Sorry, I wasn't very clear in my comment - it was the title arrangement I'd meant when referring to Delia Derbyshire. And it was amazing, you have to agree!

That really wasn't bad. The only let down was the CGi ice woman, looked like something from over a decade ago. I'm not sure I want the companion to be the centre of the story again either, another strung out mystery that ends up being the centre of the universe and the "key to everything". Much better writing overall though, jolly good.

For me, it was the unsubtlety of it, and that applies to other elements as well, such as the fact that she's a lizard woman from the dawn of time. Moff was getting several laughs out of the fact that she's a lesbian Victorian reptilian silurian crime-fighter, and that extends back to the prequel 'The Great Detective' in which she flustered the policeman in the same way as she flustered Richard E Grant and the maid. Rather than giving the relationship a quiet dignity, and just letting it be a sweet romantic partnership, he added neon lights to it to make a point, which for me diminished the authenticity of their relationship (and the realism of their surviving with such a brash lifestyle made up of crime fighting in leather jumpsuits and backtalking to everyone they see in Victorian London). We didn't see that with Amy and Rory, or even with Jack and Ianto, who by Children of Earth had developed a quiet but powerful relationship.

In general though, I liked the characters, and look forward to seeing more of them

Mary Poppins is a Timelord? It all makes sense now!

Delia did create incidental music. Classic Pertwee story 'Inferno' uses some of Delia's stunning music. Inferno illustrates how to keep incidental music subtle and atmospheric.

So the Doctor now flies around the universe picking up girls, with the Tardis being the Time Lord equivalent of a set of racy wheels?

This seems like such a well-argued, thoughtful point of view SimonB, but you need to understand that the modern BBC is hell-bent on turning us all into homosexuals. Why else would they "sneak in stuff for gays"? It's not as if Doctor Who has any gay viewers or gay actors or award-winning gay writers. Anyway, everyone knows gays don't even watch telly because they're far too busy engaging in the kind of unspeakable acts that their stridently heterosexual detractors can all too easily imagine in graphic detail. This politically correct propaganda is dangerously effective too. I lost count of the number of times during last night's episode that I seriously considered the prospect of vigorous sapphic relations with Jenna Louise-Coleman (it was only by virtue of being a man that I managed to resist the urge to go fully-blown lesbian there and then). Why oh why oh why can't the BBC go back to how it was in the good old days of the 70s and 80s when we didn't have these perfidious perverted pencil-pushers shoving their naked shameful pink agendas down our innocent throats? The Great British public deserve honest, straight-down-the-line, good-old-fashioned family entertainers like we used to have before homosexuality was invented and the gay mafia took over our screens. People like Frankie Howerd, John Inman, Larry Grayson, Christopher Biggins, Lionel Blair, Dusty Springfield, Kenny Everett, Liberace, Danny La Rue, Noel Coward, Duncan Norvelle, Michael Barrymore, Allen Ginsberg, Freddie Mercury, George Takei, Truman Capote, Oscar Wilde, Graham Chapman, Brian Epstein, Denholm Elliott, Dirk Bogarde, Sam Fox, Elton John, John Gielgud, Nigel Hawthorne, Rock Hudson, David Hockney, Andy Warhol, Kenneth Williams, Charles Hawtrey, Kelly McGillis, Martina Navratilova, Billie Jean King, Wilfred Owen, Joe Orton, Walt Whitman, Tennessee Williams, Cole Porter, Peter Wyngarde, Starscream, George from Rainbow, Ted Heath, Sir Cliff Richard, the Kray twins and Skeleton from Superted. Think how many hours of quality, wholesome entertainment would have been ruined if the powers-that-be back then had forced all those legends to give the false impression that they might be homosexuals. We can only hope that somebody important from the BBC will have the wherewithal to put their copy of Attitude magazine to one side for five minutes and take time to read Davros01's comments. He truly speaks for us all. The absolute last thing any of us want to see portrayed on Doctor Who is a situation, character or relationship which differs in any way from what we have experienced personally. How on earth are our poor children going to cope when faced with the earth-shattering concept that some women might want to marry each other? The poor souls haven't had the time to develop a sufficiently blinkered worldview. With their Doctor-like youthful enthusiasm, curiosity, acceptance of new things and lack of deep-rooted prejudice there's no way they'd be able to dismiss an entire section of society with the kind of brutal efficiency exemplified by the trite and meaningless reactionary catchphrase, "politically correct crap". (If only the world's lesbians realised that every single relationship they've had, no matter how loving, joyful or fulfilling it seemed to be, was in fact "politically correct crap" they could have saved themselves a lot of bother and settled down with a nice misogynistic internet sci-fi fan instead.) There's a very real danger that children will watch last night's Doctor Who, see a lesbian couple being helpful, heroic and honourable, and come to the terribly mistaken conclusion that judging people according to their sexuality is a meaningless waste of time that reveals far more about the inadequacies and insecurities of those doing the judging than those being judged.

Will no-one mention the kiss? It's becoming a bit of a tradition, but I liked this one best, I think, because Clara was so smug about it, like: "Haha, you so-oo fancy me."
Also, I have mixed feelings about the new TARDIS interior. It's lovely to see some aspects of old Who getting a look in, and the darkness reflects the Doctor's grief over Amy, but I liked the golden, warm, magical light of the last one, it felt more...Who-like.

Agreed, I didn't mind Jenny and Vastra, I just wish they'd been more subtle about it. Although, that line...

And...."It's smaller on the outside."

You do raise quite good points there regarding a certain amount of flashy unsubtlety which I think has always been inherent in Doctor Who but probably more now than at the beginning. The notion of green scaled or potato headed aliens 'backchatting' Victorian Londoners, played for laughs, perhaps would ordinarily be a little tough to accept in anything other than Doctor Who, but then again Victorian London always makes me think of circus 'freakshows' such as featured in the Elephant Man, so maybe a 'green skinned' lady detective wouldn't seem quite as wild a notion to Londoners of that era as it would today.

Also, we are of course talking about a programme where the suspension of disbelief required is unusually high, even for science fiction so I've always cut it extra slack. The central premise has always been more exotic and fantastical than many other more grounded allegorical creations from the remade Battlestar Galactica to Babylon 5 to The Walking Dead (which primarily I think of as horrific apocalyptic science fiction rather than simply as horror) to Star Trek and The X Files. I totally agree with you about the subtle and poignant Jack/Ianto relationship, but Torchwood at least had the grounding of people living in a full time contemprary Earth setting. The Doctor on the other hand is a timeless otherworldly fairytale-esque Merlin/Gandalf type character that travels in a dimensionally transcendental time machine 'disguised' as a 1960s police box that only very rarely raises an eyebrow wherever and whenever it materialises. I think in that context, I've always accepted the universe presented in Doctor Who in pretty much the same spirit that I happily accept Game of Thrones, or Buffy the Vampire Slayer and differently to the spirit in which I accept say Star Trek, Babylon 5, Falling Skies or Battlestar Galactica. While it took certain noteable elements from the utterly brilliant and groundbreaking Quatermass series that predated it, Doctor Who has always had it's own unique flavour and internal logic and I've loved it for that since I was a wee nipper. But I'm sure all fans love it for slightly different reasons personal to them. Long may it continue I hope.

You do raise quite good points there regarding a certain amount of
flashy unsubtlety which I think has always been inherent in Doctor Who
but probably more now than at the beginning. The notion of green scaled or potato headed aliens 'backchatting' Victorian Londoners, played for laughs,
perhaps would ordinarily be a little tough to accept in anything other
than Doctor Who, but then again Victorian London always makes me think
of circus 'freakshows' such as featured in the Elephant Man, so maybe a
'green skinned' lady detective wouldn't seem quite as wild a notion to
Londoners of that era as it would today.

Also, we are of course
talking about a programme where the suspension of disbelief required is
unusually high, even for science fiction so I've always cut it extra
slack. The central premise has always been more exotic and fantastical
than many other more grounded allegorical creations from the remade
Battlestar Galactica to Babylon 5 to The Walking Dead (which primarily I
think of as horrific apocalyptic science fiction rather than simply as
horror) to Star Trek and The X Files. I totally agree with you about the
subtle and poignant Jack/Ianto relationship, but Torchwood at least had
the grounding of people living in a full time contemprary Earth
setting. The Doctor on the other hand is a timeless otherworldly
fairytale-esque Merlin/Gandalf type character that travels in a
dimensionally transcendental time machine 'disguised' as a 1960s police
box that only very rarely raises an eyebrow wherever and whenever it
materialises. I think in that context, I've always accepted the universe
presented in Doctor Who in pretty much the same spirit that I happily
accept Game of Thrones, or Buffy the Vampire Slayer and differently to
the spirit in which I accept say Star Trek, Babylon 5, Falling Skies or
Battlestar Galactica. While it took certain noteable elements from the
utterly brilliant and groundbreaking Quatermass series that predated it,
Doctor Who has always had it's own unique flavour and internal logic
and I've loved it for that since I was a wee nipper. But I'm sure all
fans love it for slightly different reasons personal to them. Long may
it continue I hope.

Fanatstic comment Russell and a fine piece of stinging satire. It reminds me of how much I'll miss The Thick of It. The sad thing is that certain readers would probably fail to see the point and cheerfully 'agree' with it...

Lastly, it was the best of the Christmas episodes since The Grande Moff took over. I liked Strax. It was very pretty to look at. But, as seems to be the norm in Who now, was devoid of any substance. Please allow my posts, Den. Or I'll rip up my D.T poster in despair:)

Firstly, the Snowmen. When the Moff-heads saw the robot Santa's they hated RTD and were going to tear him a new one for the insult yet they clearly love the snowmen? Hypocrites. This episode bored me to sleep. And if the BBC can't hold the attention of a thirty year old Whovian, what chance have they got of holding the minute attention spans of the ADHD Ritalin addicted children that populate this country? This episode didn't even make the top 5 watched shows yesterday. Not even with the new companion and unveiling of the console room. Despite critical denial, Who ratings continue to decline since Miff's tenure. What's going on Beeb? Matt Smith continues to un-amaze me with his amazing lack of personality. I've tried so hard to like him, but cant. I'll watch it again, just to confirm what I already know, that my love affair with New Who is over.

It's the age of Government backed pc BBC. What else would you expect?

And what's with all the over self-indulgence from Moff? Yes dude, we get it, you also write the borefest that is Sherlock, you don't need to stick a reference in every single episode of Who to remind us, constantly, thanks.

Great - watching this episode was pure pleasure! There were a few scenes
of breathtaking beauty, for example Clara noticing and then climbing
the ladder in the wintry mist for the first time. Acting was great, too -
though Matt Smith, who is from the beginning the perfect Doctor, and yet getting better and
better with each episode, was a bit overshadowed by Clara this time - but that's
good; that was "her" episode after all. Dialogues very amusing, as
always in Moffat's scenarios; I liked how things fell into place (eg
"watch me running" at the end corresponding to "run, clever boy" and all
the exchanges between Clara and the Doctor). Of course there were some
less convincing scenes, too. The Doctor showing the Tardis saying "and
that's mine" the way he did - well, a bit pathetic; the "lizard wife
stuff" not funny (hey, this show, especially Christmas episodes, is
supposed to be watched by children, do they really have to watch the
quirky lesbian-lizard affairs?). The irrelevant discussion of the
"Victorian values"? And the ending too hectic and out of tune somehow, although I guess
showing the future Clara was necessary, otherwise this episode would end
on a very sad note. Oh, and the "souffle" moment - great!!! Nine out of
ten, in general :-)

I wonder if Clara will die every episode, like Rory Pond. Come on Moff, you have well and truly wore out that joke by now.

So how are the children of the present, pop culture Ipad generation meant to be able to relate to a companion that comes from the Victorian era? Way to go alienating most of your audience, Steven.

It's so true, if the BBC didn't want me to be a sinister rampant homosexual then why use Ian McKellen's voice? Just listening to his wonderful voice made me want to dress up like a wizard or Magneto and do all manner of gay stuff.

Sorry, It looked like the comment hadn't posted properly the first time and so now it's sitting there twice, clogging up the information works and adding a new little bit of redundancy to wade through in tribute to Aldous Huxley...

Great comment, very funny. When it comes to persecution complex exhibiting, paranoid conspiracy regurgitating, biggotted baffoons somewhere right of ukip but hopefully not as far right as eugenics espousing megalomania (a bit like, you know, mundanely stupid versions of Davros), I'm always slightly torn between laughing at them and wanting to slap their face and tell them to stop being so silly. Laughing is probably healthier.

My comments are probable going to get lost but all I want to say is this has been my favourite xmas special since the first one. Did anyone else think of Studio Ghibli with the staircase that goes up to the clouds?

Dear everyone who replied to my comment. I knew it would upset people by saying it. I know gay people exist. I accept it, I would not go out and kill them for it, or hurt them in any way. I just dont want to see it in Doctor Who, in any form. As was pointed out there is a minority of gay people. But the way the Bbc and media goes about it now, you would think everyone was gay. And its fashionable, and they all seem to want to shout about it. Fair enough, but I dont want to hear it. Thats just me. I like to rant, I like to talk and make mypoints, and if others agree or disagree and it gets a debate going, then I have achieved what I set out to do. Going back to Who, it was a fantastic, fun episode, I loved the new Tardis, and I want to buy the playset right now! Clara is great, an interesting twist on the companion, the fact that she died, but is still alive elsewhere...and the 23rd .....hmmm I just know its going to be clever and well done when it all falls into place. I just wish it was over twelve episodes in 2013 But we have been cheated of that. I want to watch again next week, but we will have to wait until april. I think part of the reason I am so stoked about it, is because there has only been six episodes this year, would we have all been so happy if we had just seen twelve great episodes this year? There is somethhing ele for you to think on. Thanks for not flaming me and being constructive, we are all different and like different things. Happy Boxing Day to all, and I am looking forward to reading your new comments.

Just seen the episode after it aired in Australia and am desperate to see the next instalment in April!!! (btw, a massive thank you to the BBC for nowadays releasing episodes of "WHO' so 'fast tracked' to international fan centres, such as Australia). Can't agree more that Clara is an excellent companion and addition to the show! (She's already my favourite 'full time' companion too).


(For example, characters such as Captain Jack, Craig Owens, Mickey Smith, River Song, Wilfred Mott)

I BLOODY love you.

I was quite straight, I am sure, until the age of about ten.

I used to watch a lot of BBC.

Blue Peter , Are you Being Served , Generation Game ,The Sky At Night...

I am left in no doubt that their sneaky underhand subliminal `gay messaging' turned me into a fully fledged homosexual by the time I was eleven.

The latest episode of Dr Who just reinforced that brainwashing.

How I've coped all these years is beyond my comprehension...And I'm sure beyond the understanding of most fickle minded viewers.

I thought it was great until the ending became confusing. I expected the snow to start mirroring the Doctor until suddenly tears? First time I thought Moffat was a bit too melodramatic. The only thing that can drown out snow is a family in tears? We barely saw that family, and we barely saw Captain Latimer or the Snowmen. They could've been the new Angels, since they appear if you think about them, but then there was a Richard Grant zombie! And I couldn't hear a word said when she was dying, so with so many unresolved questions at the end it was really confusing. What with the Great Intelligence and all. Without the trailer I'd still be left in the dark.

Loved the Sherlock Holmes gag though (plus musical cue) and the new intro!

yeah...I am back! I am pretty tolerant really, but as I expected no one got the point of my post. In the fact that the Gay stuff has no place in Doctor Who. I can take a hint one else agrees with me. I know Ian Mckellen is gay. His voice and part was acting, no mention of him being gay, married to a bloke etc etc. That was what I was driving at. Has anyone seen the Family Guy episode Something Something Darkside? The opening crawl gets ,my point and when I saw it I laughed my head off and agreed...
"A long time ago in a galaxy far far away....
When the gays were not all up in your face about it...."
Anyway peace on earth and goodwill to all gays and men and even the BBC , because I love Doctor Who...

Second Impression

Change Of Direction

I'd like to start out by highlighting what I liked about the episode, instead of my usual moaning rants about where they have gone wrong, I'll get to those soon enough.

The most entertaining part of the entire thing was Straxx, The wet nurse Sontaran. He gets my vote for full-time TARDIS companion. That would make for an interesting and fun (something that appears to be missing from Who, these days) dynamic, that both children and adults could enjoy. "Potato Dwarf" Brilliant.

The new title sequence, an excellent throwback to the classic era, as was the new TARDIS interior design. It reminded me of Peter Davis's console room's of the 80's. I liked, we need more classic Who in new Who. Congrats to the people who design these small but very important parts of overall Who.

Excellent production values. It really did resemble Victorian England. I would have preferred it if they had shown the real V.E instead of the nice, wealthy family they did. They made several points about Victorian values, but I never really got the sense the DR cared that much about the injustices committed at that time. So the throwaway references really weren't needed. All that today's youth will learn from this is that V.E era was nice and posh, albeit minus a few starving blokes who became "snow food". Take note kids, in this era of the UK, the poor are once again being reduced to food for the "Greater Intelligence" ergo, the rich elite capitalists.

The story was overall, not too bad, better than most of Moff's mundane output, even some witty dialogue, here and there. It was no masterpiece, but definitely serviceable. Pay attention Moff, we need more structured and coherent stories like this. Let's Kill Hitler, anyone?

The Snowmen were suitably sinister, but very underused. Why the ice particle woman? She wasn't threatening at all. In fact, she lessened the entire fear factor of the Snowmen.. The cgi for her was ok, nowt special but not all bad. Again, as I say, there was just no threat there, with her. A pointless creature.

Nice nod towards the Great Intelligence of old. Ian was brought back to do the voice-over work, good call. With actors of that calibre continuing to grace the show, it should be only going from strength to strength, alas, it isn't. Which is a damn shame because this really could be the best Who ever.

Richard as Simian, great talent, interesting character if they had invested more in him, but yet again, sadly, he was underused.

As always, the sound department shines.

Now, onto what's letting things down. Including my love and admiration of our beloved old Doctor.

Right from the off we had endless (dr who?) in-jokes. I'm sure I'm not the only person who is tiring of the same material every episode. Why is Doctor Who now becoming so repetitive? Again, it's looking as if we have a centre stage companion that will die (twice already) repeatedly, over and over, ad nauseum until there is no emotional resonance left, and nobody will care. This was a massive issue through the earlier Moff era. By the time the Pond's left, I didn't care at all, whereas with Rose and Martha, and even Donna, I felt some attachment to them. Not the case with the Pond's, and now it's looking as if it's going to be the same with Clara. Severely underwhelming companions, these days, sure, she's pretty and young, acting's ok, but she's yet again, another generic companion. Is it just me that thinks the great mystery will be the glaringly obvious? Clara will turn out to be the Doc's plot-point daughter, Jenny? They even had a character in this episode with that name, just in case you didn't pick up on it, even though it was, as I said, glaringly obvious.

Lot's of over the top, sexual innuendo's. Every episode of Moff's, he seems to want to cram as many pc, desensitizing lesbian comments in as he can. Or homosexual jokes. Sure, RTD did it, but aren't you lot always telling me the Moff would never stoop to the childish levels of RTD? Well, apparently you are wrong, because I've seen far more of this highly sexualised nonsense in new Who under Moff, than ever in the RTD era. Same with the deus ex machine clichés. It was a sin when RTD did it, if Moff does it, week in week out, he get's hailed a genius.

Continuity errors galore. Come on BBC, please attempt to at least show some professionalism on your flagship show, I'm certain you wouldn't allow these errors to slip through on Eastenders, why treat this show so shabbily? It's your big cash cow, for crying out loud.

For a show meant to be based upon factual science, the BBC sure are trying to make it resemble Harry Potter. For every occasion, the Doc now whips out his wand, sorry, sonic, to solve any and all problems. Cop out resolutions time and time again. No emotional depth.

I'm not sure it's all down to Matt here, but it seems as if every feature length episode of new Who really drags and becomes a chore to watch, where as with the standard length episodes, they try to cram as much fast paced, hectic nonsense in as they can, just for the hell of it. Yet again, I'm struggling to find any emotional engagement in either type of episode. Don't lynch me folks, I'm not saying it's all Matt.

Again with the continuity The Doctor, has we are told, is now a recluse that avoids human contact, yet the moment Clara steps on board the TARDIS, he throws the key at her. Very trusting. How does the Doctor know she isn't some kind of enemy plant, maybe a hidden time lady of the evil variety? He knows nothing about her but gives her access to the TARDIS? I can only believe she is Jenny, and the Doc somehow "Just knows" she is trustworthy. His love, Rose, who he doted on wasn't even given the key after her first episode it took weeks for him to build up trust in her. Now the Doc just gives TARDIS keys to anybody? That can only spell disaster surely, either that, or it's very poor character development from the Moff, who really ought to know better, since he's such a genius and all....

The show runners are attempting to chisel into the scripts that the Doctor is dark and brooding. This really doesn't need elaborating upon time and time again. We all know the Doctor, all they are succeeding to do here is make the show tiresome to watch. They don't need to force the Doctor to be cool, he is already cool. Again, removing all sense of emotional depth from the show.

I was suitably impressed with the trailer for next season, and if they bring back the Ice Warriors, I'm on board. Liked the look of those Cybers, and it all looked rather spiffy, however, so did this Christmas episode. And yet I found myself underwhelmed, again, by yesterdays offering. There just doesn't seem to be any sense of fun in Who now, since Moff-Smith took over. Please Moff, I'm not your biggest fan, but please, make the Doctor fun again!

Roll on April, let's get the Doc back on track. This episode did actually go a long way to addressing some of the issues that were present throughout the Pond's tenure. If nowt else, I'm glad they are gone.

K9, of course, and Turlough.

Hello Harry , you get my vote over the LibLanCon:)

Blatant self indulgence from the Moff. It's not like we don't already know he writes the borefest, Sherlock.

For a Christmas show, it seemed very lacklustre and rather grim. Where is the festive cheer? RTD managed to incorporate it, why can't the second rate genius, the Moff? Everything about this era of WHO screams "Great Depression" despite the slick production values.

You think gay characters have no place in Doctor Who. Yes, that is the point I think that people did get. That you thus automatically assume that only heterosexuality has a place in Doctor Who surely reveals something deeper about some hangup or other that you have over sexual orientation in the real world. Otherwise why would you be affronted enough by the appropriate minority representation of a minority in 2012 (knowing as you initially stated how contentious a comment it would be) to raise the issue in the first place? That would be a bit irrational surely unless you thought you were talking about something deeper than a bit of harmless escapism?

As I suggested, I suspect that it seems more likely that you are chanelling some more profound discomfort through what is in actuality an analogy to some degree of the real world (which is what most science fiction is). Or do you have evidence that would support the claim that homosexuality is inconsistent with the Dioctor Who universe (narratively speaking)? Are you claiming it differs from Doctor Who's traditional roots that also featured very little in the way of ethnic minorities for a long time? Do you think that black and asian characters also have no place in Doctor Who? You may claim that is a gross exaggeration of your view, but truthfully how would you distinguish between the very real minorities in modern Britain that you deem suitable or unsuitable for inclusion? I assume you are expressing a real view and are not just trying to alienate people (trolling). Anyhow, the upshot is that you're going to have to like it or lump it, just as readers of your view will ultimately either have to like or lump that.

Funnily enough, there was a mention of them wanting to do that right back on the Series 1 commentary track. Of course it was a whole different production crew and they never achieved it, but I bet they were glad it was finally shown.

Moffs so called intentional genius plot holes. Be careful, a few on here will lynch you if they see you make a statement such as this. The Moff is Lord of All and they wont hear any different, ever.

Well I think the final word I'll have is simply that homosexuality exists in Doctor Who (to I would say it's appropriate minority degree) and it exists in most modern television (not just the BBC). You have three choices I guess. Continue watching tv and come to terms with the fact that it represents gay and straight interests. Continue to watch it and let it upset you. Stop watching tv. What other choice do you really have short of overthrowing the establishment? Anyway, I think I've said enough on the issue now. It's good that you enjoyed the episode, I did too, not least because Jenna Louise Coleman is another fascinating character and utterly lovely to behold too (in as unchauvenistic a sense as I can manage ;-)). Happy boxing day to you too, try not to let you know what bother you too much.

Yes, the gay agenda in yesterdays Who sinisterly fits the PM's big speech yesterday morning. It's almost as though both the BBC and parliament had this planned in advance. What better way to convert the young to your cause than by making it glare in your fave sci-fi tv show.

Last nights Doctor Who was full of gay marriage references, I find it odd and sinister that this would be so on the same day the PM made his gay marriage speech. Its almost has if the bbc and big dave had this planned in advance. now, you tell me the gov. aren't using the media to brainwash our kids to fit their own, desensitising agenda. What better way to warp our youngster's mind's into compliance with capitalist government rule.

I've finally realised what's wrong with this current era, watered down WHO. It's no longer a morally ethically educating, challenging TV show. Now it's been reduced to a brainwashing device of our elite overlord's. The real Doctor would be horrified that his good name is being used to indoctrinate our children with elite overlord agendas. It's beyond deniability now.

Doctor Who is supposed to be major contemporary drama now and it can't appeal to a general audience unless it attempts to address matters of sexuality even if this is not what some of it's audience traditionally expect.This is just another example of traditional fans complaining that the programme's approach now is not consistent with it's history.You just can't expect the character's to have any credibility with an audience now unless it's involved in the stories in some way and it's not something that can't be included in science fiction,

You're wrong. You fail to see the screamingly obvious. It's no wonder our society is regressing

I wonder if next seasons WHO will address the "Benefits Claimant" agenda? No doubt everybody in the episode who isn't contributing taxes, will be killed off, and the good Doctor will say, "who cares? they are idle workshy scrounging useless eaters, anyway" coinciding with our current government regimes beliefs? You heard it here first.

Why assume that it must be a "hangup" on the part of Davros01 when he says that gay culture has no place in Doctor Who.
I think he makes a good point.
Doctor Who is a family show, it should represent good honest values.
Sexual deviancy and anything that encourages a young audience to invest in anything other than decent family values should be actively encouraged.

The makers of any television or other media aimed at the young have an absolute responsibility to ensure that deviant behaviours are not encouraged in the next generation.
That said, it has to be acknowledged that the gay lifestyle is a real and active part of life in the 21st century. What these people do in the comfort of their own homes is entirely a matter for them.
But we must not encourage this as the norm or indeed in any way acceptable.

I know, I have to like it or lump it. I am sorry if people are upset about my comments. I have a wife, who is very ill and the goverment has cut the money she has to live on, and she is descriminated against because of her health problems. But the goverment is bogged down in gay mariage debates while the rest of the country still suffers and is a mess, they are obsessed with it, and when it creeps into dr who it makes me mad for the above reasons. We are suffering, so I am annoyed about it. Hope it helps put it into perspective from our point of view. I have no problem with ethnic minorities or anything else. I am just mad with the BBC for many reasons and it came out a bit again last night, ok?
Sorry, but I had a valid point, and people can agree or disagree. I am just glad some people have noticed it and some people agree or accept some of what I said. If people like me did not stand up and say these things that a lot of people think but dare not say, nothing would ever change, and the powers that be would get away with a lot more than they do. I am from the older generation ok? I dont often fit in well in this modern mess we now live in. Hence the davros name....I am not going to say anymore on the subject now, thanks for being kind, and talking about it in a civilised fasion. Have a nice Boxing Day and I am going to go and look at the new Tardis again to see what I missed.

The BBC can't promote Doctor Who as serious drama unless subjects like this are featured now,i'm afraid.Science Fiction particularly needs to address these things to be accepted as a genre.

And I don't suppose you think that you yourself have a hang up despite typing that little lot? If you're not demonstrating Poe's Law or intentionally making the very point that you are denying, then how very middle ages of you. Burning 'witches' or heretics at the stake was once due to 'traditional values' too. That was also irrational fear fueled bollocks.

Yes!!!!! It was great and the stairs were a fun idea. But why not park the Tardis somewhere quiet like a field, wood or alley like he always does? Its a bit of a faff climbing all the way up and down each time he goes out, not to mention a ladder appearing in the middle of the park for everyone to see, if he wants to go out during the day, but it was a great idea and very well done.

yeah cracks sealed Tardis unblown up, as the universe was reset and changed gets a bit complex. He does leave a lot of plot holes though you are right. He does a season of whimsey, people he does a season of time travel complex deep stuff thats hard to follow...people moan. So he drops the two parters and does standalone episodes so even the brain dead can follow them....and people complain. Thee show is so complex with so much that you can do, you really cant please anyone at any time... Thats Doctor Who and Who fans...I should know, I get a lot of flak for my views even though I am often right some of the time anyway....


Respect to you sir. I mention the Gay stuff in my posts above, and look at the argument I started! You are right, I agree and you put it across way better than I did. Thank you. The rest of your post was accurate and true to a large degree but I still thought it was fun, and enjoyed it. We need twelve episodes starting in April, but we wont get it...the smeggers....

Well I agree that gay marriage shouldn't really be the time consuming political hot potato that it currently is when the government has enough other things to worry about. But unfortunately it is because certain people and institutions have made it such by strenuously objecting to the very notion of it. If I were gay, I'd probably be pretty annoyed at those that wish to treat me as a second class citizen, as it sounds like you may feel that your wife is being treated currently. I'm genuinely sorry to hear that she isn't well. I have some personal experience with such matters affecting close family members and I hope that her situation (and by extension yours) improves in the near future. Take care and roll on April.

Thank you, good sir. Apparently, those of us that can see the turn for the worst our beloved TL as taken, are in the minority. I was a bit too full of liquid Christmas cheer last night, to make the "Gay Agenda" connection. However upon looking back, and viewing the episode again, it's only made too obvious that current era WHO is following the trend of "Government Gratification". It's a sad day indeed when our good Doctor is being used to indoctrinate our children for political point scoring. The real Doctor would be outraged and furious by this, and I fear that both the BBC and it's rulers (and ours) would be made to feel the Doc's wrath, if he ever found out about this:)

You have to be very careful what concerns you raise on here, the Moff-Heads won't stand for it. He can never ever do any wrong in their eyes, even when he falls into the same traps, frequently, as RTD did, they will overlook it, yet poor Russel, got dragged down the street to his Wicker Man lynching for making even the slightest mistake.

It was okay. Pretty typical Doctor Who stuff. A lot of running around and waving the magic wand--I mean "screwdriver."

I don't think Doctor Who will ever reach the quality of the episode "Midnight" again. That was proper scifi.

Honestly, there are far too many people getting their nickers in a twist in this thread.

Get a grip!

Oh, please. No "youngster" is going to be gay just because he or she saw a lizard lesbian on Doctor Who. Acknowledging that gay people exist is not brainwashing.

Acknowledging that gay people exist is not pandering to any agenda. The idea that people are going to practice homosexuality just because they see it on TV is ridiculous

If you used TV to educate you about morals, I feel sorry for you. I wouldn't say TV brainwashes people. It reflects cultural values and prejudices.

thanks man...that means a lot to us at the moment. Cheers.

Yet, he still manages to feel constantly sorry for himself

Except for the repeated 'Doctor Who?' lines and the sketchy explanation of why the snow turned into tears, I thought this was utterly brilliant, possibly the best episode of recent times. The new girl had a lot more scope to prove that the promise shown in Asylum will be fulfilled brilliantly. I can't wait to see much more of her, a great character portrayed by someone who can make the most of it.

Madame Vastra and pals were also wonderful, their set up gives the feeling of something real & substantial that the Doctor just happens to be walking into. Even the cheesy memory worm skit was brilliantly penned and acted.

The only thing that struck a sour note for me is that we won't get the Victorian version of Clara/Owsin for the rest of her time. I hope her next version is just as wonderful and complete as a character.

Am so glad I recorded this and waited til turkey sandwich time to eat it.

He's messing with us all, that's what he's up to.

I completely agree. The golden age of WHO, is over, especially now the show as been hijacked by liberal media moguls seeking to impose State agendas upon our impressionable children. A very dark day in the history of Doctor. They have corrupted and reversed this show beyond redemption now.

Still failing to see it eh? Damn. Our children, via shows such as these, are being manipulated into agreeing with whatever the State deems to b the correct "outlook" of the day. This is a very serious, and despicable move by our Significant Betters. Mr Orwell knew this all along. As sci-fi fans with independent minds, why aren't more of you shocked that this is happening in this society?

Funny how they chose yesterday to "accept it" though, isn't it? It's almost as if they thought the docile public wouldn't cotton on to this little scheme. By the looks of it, they were right.


Well, if the last three moff seasons are anything to go by, she'll be dead a third of the way through every episode, severely lessening the dramatic effect:)

Lionel Blair is camp, not gay. May be bi, but he's been married for 40 year, and has three kids., so it worked for him

Jimmy Saville would have made an epic Doctor, eh Beeb?

Not only have we now had the pc muslim bit companion, but now we are getting the official government endorsed Gay Marriage agenda, what's next on New WHO?

Cybermen chanting "You Will Be Deleted

for being unemployed!"

Wait and see

It's taller on the inside :)

I was impressed with the way they highlighted the social injustices of those good ol' Tory Victorian Values.

Especially now those values are about to become a heinous reality, once again, in this civilised country of ours.

Children watch Dr Who. The sort of comment made by Vastra is part of the lefty liberal push that being Gay is normal. Well, sorry it ISNT NORMAL. It certainly shouldnt be in Dr Who. What next, Playschool where the 2 male presenters kiss & adopt a baby as part of normality? What next for the BBC to champion, Necrophilia? Bestiality? Paedophilia?

Not dumbed down?


Now that would be a hoot...

It's obviously normal for straight people to be straight. Like it's normal for gay people to be gay. It's also normal for Earth to orbit the sun and for the sun to shine. Your last sentence destroyed any hope for you being capable of critical thinking, rationality, reason or common sense. Back to the woodwork with you.

The latest WHO gimmick, a companion who changes her name and look, every week. That ought to get the taxpayers putting their hands in their pockets to splash out on the new toy line.

Didn't 'Lefty' used to be in Eastenders?

Will you stop posting rants over and over again here.

Because I don't believe a "gay agenda" exists. Even if there was such a thing, who cares? 50% of children are born because of accidental pregnancies. At least gay people aren't contributing to that.

It may help if you see her as less of a character, and more of a plot device, though I'm sure Moff will deny this.

Yesterday? Homosexuality has always been present in human cultures. The ancient Greeks considered love between men to be the highest form of love. Considering that humans have always been homosexuals, it's ridiculous for people like you to freak out about it.

excellent episode, dark, moody, great performances from all especially REG and SIM who gave the episide some gravitas in a similar manner to Michael Gambon did a couple of years ago. I *LOVED* the opening title sequence, probably the best version since the classic 4th Doctors, likewise the new Tardis set is the best since the TV Movie. The only problem I have is with Clara dying twice, it would be nice to have a "normal" companion after Donna is special, Amy & the crack, Rorys many deaths and the whole River song saga all of which were OK but do we really need another one?

Too much eggnog

"Midnight" was a joy...the original "Blink" was another (the angels should have never gone beyond that episode)

No. we don't need another one. However Moff see's himself as infallible, so we can expect many more anti-tragi death scenes. I'm also willing to lay odds we will see the first inter-lizard lesbian marriage by the end of nest season, fitting snugly in time for the local elections:)

26 December 2012 8:48

"I have got Clara. !! Not going to give it away this early but it is quite obvious if you go back a few series who she is,!"

A pal of mine

It's Jenny mate, The politically correct Beeb have wanted a woman Doctor for years.

A couple of observations: 1. A lot of bother could be avoided if the Doctor would just remember to close the Tardis door, and 2: Richard E. Grant would have made a damn good Doctor.

I thought that too, but in the "Coming Soon" someone specifically says "The twice dead girl". So no more Kenny moments for Oswin?

I liked the ep even though i think they should cut the Clara/DW flirting. He is married after all. I can't help but wonder if he will tell River or not. And he should tell Clara he is not available.

I cannot really believe someone here says "Gay people have no place DW." Really? Just cause its a minority? They can be wherever they want. Maybe we should not have people who's skin is not white in there cause in Europe and America it's a minority. (sarcasm) Or maybe we should not even have characters who do not fill the stereotypes of "normal."
Maybe we should get rid of River cause she is too capable woman and doesn't fit the typical picture of a woman who is at home and cooks. (still sarcasm)
If you don't like the lizard woman I have no problem with that. If you would prefer DW with only straight people, okay. But saying they have no place there is horrible.
I mean if they can't be even in a tv show can they even be in real life or would you push them away too?

I seriously feel like people need to hate someone constantly. First in history it was people who did not have the same religious people. Than they hated people because of their skin color and now because of who they take in bed.
Can't we just focus on our own business and not hate other for being different?
For all I care there can be thousands of lizard women or men or gays or anything in DW.

Poor Matt, I just saw him described as "ugly as sin". From a woman, no less.Apparently the overnight figures are just under 8 million. That's not bad at all, however that's contradictory to the BBC's own official line. These figures would have put WHO in the number 5 slot, last night. On the beeb's own site though, the royal family came in before who at number 5. Whose spinning the figures? And why? Behind every discrepancy there is an all too real conspiracy. Let's see if you intelligent Doctor Who fans can "figure" out what it is.

Matt Smith ugly? You must be joking!

From a woman.

To all the people banging on about the gay issue are you for real it's a kids programme F F S so what you need to remember is that you were kids when you first watched it and that's why you watch it now it's not real you numb nuts just enjoy it for what it is a sci-fi programme that lets you escape reality for a while merry Xmas from a hetero who likes dr who for the above reasons and posts on here to annoy the anal fanboys who need to get a life

Time to rant and rave...I love the lizard the lesbian and the potatoe...hated the "new girl" her character doesn't sit right with me yet...barmaid then governess then kiss the doctor and new companion...then dead. Is she going to be the ultimate disposable living flesh companion...or maybe this was a failed attempt at assasination by the daleks? So many questions. I did like the new console room. I was tired of the willy wonka style found trash console.

Anyone who keeps tack of my comments on Who-related articles will know I'm a bit of a Moffat-skeptic. I loved his input to the RTD era (in fact, Empty Child, GITFP and Blink are some of my favourite Who stories), but I've never been fully convinced by his own tenure. I've only really loved the odd episode here and there. I really enjoyed Asylum this year and generally found the first five episodes more promising than most before. But, for me, it had gone a bit downhill by Angels Take Manhattan and that episode didn't have the impact for me as it did for others. I went into the Snowmen VERY cautiously indeed.....

And I was extremely, extremely impressed. With the massive injection of brand-new freshness Moffat has reinvented Doctor Who, for me, as a show that is once again ridiculous, highly interesting and brilliant in every way. Once again I find myself desperate for more. The wait to April is going to kill me. Damn you, Moffat, for saving my opinion of your Who work. You perfect, perfect man.

Ah, but characters like the Elephant Man were made a big deal out of. It's not like he'd have been able to lead anything resembling a private life, let alone be a successful detective, while flaunting his condition proudly. I'm all for equal rights for lesbians and lizard people, but I don't buy them being proud and loud in the Victorian era and being accepted (and able to carry out covert operations such as detective work) in this way. There were a few too many instances of Vastra being honest with everyone for me to believe that she'd be allowed to have any kind of privacy (she told almost everyone she met that she was gay and a lizard: She isn't an enigmatic mysterious figure who deals in shadows, she's a bloody neutron bomb of anachronisticity). Suspension of disbelief doesn't cover denial of a society's nature, and it doesn't cover the fact that Moffat used the same gag of Vastra's 'honesty' several times in the episode and its prequel.

But I did actually mostly enjoy the episode. Fun, funny, and mostly sensical.

I'm guessing you ain't had any male company in quite some time:)

People will accept mediocrity all too willingly, these days. Another sad sign of the times.

It was the 5th most watched show.... A Christmas Day with the worst viewing figures ever. Just saying...

If there was such a thing, who would care? that's the most ludicrous statement I have ever heard. You have read Orwell, right? Would you care if that was happening to you and your loved one's right now? Or are you one of these heartless, uncaring people that seem to be inhabiting this country far too much, these days?

It's equally ridiculous people like you never heed the warning of totalitarianism until it's far too late.

not according to bbc, it didnt make top five

Well she wasn't revealing her true nature to "everybody" in London, just to those already embroiled in the otherworldly goings-on in the story, just as the Doctor also routinely reveals his extra terrestrial nature to select individuals in such cases. She has adopted full Victorian dress and we saw her wearing a black veil in the back street (she looked like a mourner actually) which I think would probably be sufficient to protect her privacy from most Victorian casual observers that she didn't wish to reveal her true nature to (particularly if they thought she was in mourning). Then of course we had the worm just in case anyone needed to get 'Men in Black-ed'.

But anyway, like I said, this is all part of the Who universe (dinosaurs in the Thames, Cybermen in the City, Huge christmas star firing electric bolts), so it perhaps seems a little churlish not to just accept it and enjoy the story (as I know you said you did - which was of course its aim).

Well it was on at 5.15pm (although maybe in anticipation of the reason you stated), which may have made it less convenient than in previous years, so I think you'd need to factor in the iPlayer viewings to get a fuller picture in the final analysis.

Taxpayers? What has that got to do with anything?

I rather loved this, though with the usual reservations. She is the souflee girl. He is the doctor. The drama is in the telling. I thought of Patrick Troughton and Hartnell and Tennant with the glasses. Those were my touchstones. Well, plus talk of the pond. Oh stop!. I was waiting for him to fight hand to hand like Pertwee, but not yet. Year fifty demands surprises and gifts. I think the hand to hand is yet to come! Just initial impressions. Looking forward to Spring!

Did anyone else notice when Clara kissed The Doctor the camera angle changed and the lights started flickering? There's been some speculation about flickering lights being a possible recurring theme in series 7 part one. Interesting. Will look forward to finding out about Clara. Just a shame we have to wait!

A good Christmas episode I thought. Especially after last years offering.


Yes, me too, I thought Strax, Vastra and Jenny would be good foils for the doctor. But we have Clara who I think also could be good.

Oh, I see. No, you won't get any arguments from me. I love it, although the pace is wrong for the new series. I wasn't aware that Delia scored inferno, I'll have to check that out. Although you'll have to admit that she wasn't exactly known for scoring Doctor Who stories, Radiophonic.

Ahh, her bottomless bag of things and tricks? And endless words of magic?You say what I think. `12 Well. OK! Yes I have thought this before unimaginambly. Her bag is her TARDIS.

Didn't like this on Christmas Day, but I now ascribe this to the fact I spent at least half of the episode drifting in and out of sleep due to far much wine and turkey. On second watch, I loved it.

JLC has blown all of my initial doubts about her out of the water by proving to be a complex and interesting companion and Matt Smith is still excellent. I'm less convinced by Strax becoming comic relief and Vastra constantly appearing, but they did provide funny moments.

Not all that Christmassy, but Moffat's never been one to just throw away an episode. Everything's part of the grand plan.

You blame the BBC, I blame Tim Burton, had it not been for the sight of Johnny Depp in Edward Scissorhands I may have been straight all my life, but I was 11 and there he was and wow...

A very good actor, and yes, he's handsome. And no, I'm not a lizard. Sorry :)

You're homophobic. Case closed.

Oops, sorry, replied to wrong comment. I'll try again.

You're homophobic. Case closed.

Also, your deluded conspiracy theories tell an awful lot about your psychological state and virtually nothing about anything else. Do you by any chance harbour any particular theistic beliefs?

Richard E. Grant did make a damn good Doctor, but the animated series was scrapped when the show was revived in 2005. Go check out "The Scream of the Shalka".

Oscar Wilde had a wife and children.

The TARDIS doors are meant to open outwards, the Doctor always chooses to push instead of pull.

This just in from Gay HQ 'make everyone gay, start with the BBC!' Do you people who actually think this understand how ridiculous you sound? tbh I'm pretty bored of everyone going on about the gay element of this excellent Xmas special! There is no 'gay agenda' so to everyone focusing on one tiny element of a great story 'some people are gay - get over it!' Personally as a gay person I think it's nice to see representation on the box (even if its not particularly subtle!) and inter species and alternate sexuality is a norm in the Dr who universe it's not about sexual deviance it's about love and freedom to express it. Something we all deserve! Whenever a minority finds a voice the majority think they are being threatens some how, but please explain how rights are being removed? Resist the hegemony people! I love the Dr Who universe it's obviously more accepting g than our own so good on the writers and I'm really looking forward to seeing more of Clara! (Not like that, ok well maybe a bit ;-p)

I love Jenna-Louise Coleman. Changing one of the main characters in a well loved show is undoubtedly difficult and is sometimes met with resistance and disapproval from fans. However, her character is just so fun and lovable that people who are still heartbroken over Amy and Rory can also be excited that she is the new companion. The acting is awesome and the writing is awesomer.

"It's smaller on the outside." and "Is there a kitchen?" are epic, as well as The Doctor's "Shut up."

Matt Smith was amazing as well! He made me bawl like a baby. The fact that he was wearing Amy's reading glasses was heartbreaking as well (If you remember, Amy keeps touching it in "The Angels Take Manhattan" ).That and his bow-tie line "I didn't know I put it on."

Bow-ties are cool.

Love how the comedy in the episode was always present but not overdone. The "Winter is coming" quote was so awesome as well. Overall, definitely one of my favourite Doctor Who episodes of all time.

sorry for all the "as well"s. didn't notice it when i was writing.

I just could not bring myself to watch it again. Why is that? Ok, I know RTD was far from perfect, yet I can watch any of his episodes over and over, yet I can't bring myself to watch a single episode of Moff's without being bored to tears, usually upon first viewing. Aside from The Doctor's Wife. And if they can't hold my attention, they have no chance with all these children in this country who struggle to play their D'S's for five minutes straight.

Actually that's not true. The Tardis doors are meant open's the little tiny door on the front that contains the actual telephone that opens outwards (hence "pull to open"). Gaiman stuck that line into The Doctor's wife, but he was in fact wrong.

From a logical point of view it was a bit silly but my inner child really enjoyed it.

K9 and Turlough were both full-time companions, so I can only assume this is some kind of humour.

The new them is almost identical to the previous arrangement....or did you perhaps mean the new titles?

Murray Gold has always been too "in your face" with music, not just in the Christmas Specials. The man doesn't know the meaning of "less is more". However, I've noticed a vast improvement with the music in the subtlety department ever since Moffat took over.
It would still be nice to get someone else to do the music though. Everything else in the show changes, and yet Murray is still here. lol

I couldn't agree more! He's a talented musician, but he's not quite right for this type of tv show. Thankfully, Steven Moffat told him to tone it down when he took over.

Delia arranged the original title music, but you're completely wrong about everything else. There were many composers that did the incidental music back in the day. They changed the composer quite often....something I wish they would do now. They occasionally used stock music, but not very often. It wasn't until the 70's that Dudley Simpson became the "house composer", but even then they still used other composers occasionally.
Oh how I wish Murray could take some lessons from Dudley. :)

Just two things bothered me. First, the on going joke of "Doctor Who?" (It seems that the last few episodes have either started or ended with that line) and the second thing that bothers me is that yet again this is it for Doctor Who for another few months.

Is there really any need to deem my views a 'sad sign of the times'. Surely, unless I'm out to offend or harm someone, by opinion is nothing more than a 'this is my cup of tea, but it might not be everyone's'. If anything, your readiness to shame someone for their own, harmless, opinion is the true 'sad sign of the times', my friend.

The latter point isn't all that bad in light of current proceedings. Perhaps they should let the Doctor rest for awhile. Instead off diluting him further.

Well my kids, and my sister's kids, and my best friend's kids and my brother's kids, and my sister in law's kids and my wife's best friend's kids and my boss's kids are all rapt for the entire 45 minutes when it is on so perhaps it is just you who has the attention span of a flea.

Saying that... I got quickly bored with your comment before reaching the end.

People will moan and whinge all too willingly more like.

1967 London Underground map...very nice.

You are my hero. Made me laugh so hard I cried.

Fantastically well put.


Yes, and should we also go back to when the women were not "all up in your face" or the 'coloreds'? Or Indians or Orientals or Outliers? The Good Ole' Days.

We get it. You're an intolerant geek who thinks if he shouts the loudest
he will somehow convince the millions who love Moffat and DOCTOR WHO
that the show is "less than". Somehow. Fine. You don't like it. We don't
care. Go watch something else and shut up. Thanks

Blah, Blah, Blah. Go write your own show.

...he said desperately hopeful...


You're very tired. And sad. Please stop posting. No one cares. Seriously.

You're simply ignorant and prove with every word you simply don't "get" Doctor Who. Thanks for being everything he fights against.

Totally agree. You should stop watching. That will show them.

Yes, exactly. Necrophilia, Bestiality, and Pedophilia are all perfectly equatable to two people of the same sex loving each other. You have nailed it and your intelligence is without question. Congratulations. Now, please go read a book and never procreate, okay? Thanks.

The 21st Century.

P.S. I'm only joking. You suck.

TONS of Mary Poppins references! Too bad so many folks are missing that fun aspect. Re: "MP is a Timelord"... yes! And/or she could be a Gryffindor who got expelled from Hogwarts for using magic to help muggles... wait, sorry, I think I'm overdosing on crossovers.

Anyone else convinced that Clara is Jenny (the Doctor's daughter)? THAT would definitely complicate any budding romance. In true Moffat style, there have been plenty of clear hints that she MIGHT be. Go ahead, scoff if you must... but then rewatch TDD, Asylum, and Snowmen with an eye to this theory.

The main bad guys was blowing tons of memory snow on that one house. That's why the emotions from that house took over. There's a quick line of the Doctor deducing that, if you rewatch it. He says something about a "critical mass" of snow.

Love clara, amy seemed to run on cynicism and ice whereas with Clara I find myself enjoying her presence and her inquisitiveness ( is that a word?)

... and y'know shes hot.

Wilfred Mott for me for sheer emotional depth, but then I've had a massive soft spot for Bernard Cribbins for as long as I can remember. Plus it's amusing that he was a companion to Peter Cushing in the Dalek Invasion of Earth movie. That reminds me of the rather neat line in 'The Stolen Earth' when the 10th Doctor visits The Shadow Proclamation and says something along the lines of "Someone's tried it before...No it couldn't be".

Well you certainly can't take anything 'Underclass Underdog' (he has a persecution complex you see) says seriously. He's otherwise known as 'Undy' or 'Under and Over' or 'Underwear Model' or 'Underdeveloped' or 'Underachiever', or whatever else he decides to call himself when blanketing the thread with monotonous groundless conspiracy theory paranoia, somewhere to the right of Daily Mail reader levels of fear and ignorance fueld bigotry or whatever strawman arguments he wiahes to fallaciously attach to any and all Doctor Who fans that don't share his views). Maybe he's a troll, maybe he's just delusional, but either way he's a crashing bore. I'm not keen. You probably got that.

Yes, that's just what I meant. Having been very impressed by the Scream of the Shalka I had assumed that R.E.G. (Reg?) was a dead cert to take the role when it came back to television. Sadly not!

So, after a couple of days to digest the episode, along with the Christmas Pud, I can't avoid the conclusion that Moffat just isn't a subtle writer. He has lots of ideas but throws them all in without giving much thought to how they connect and what their implications might be. Nothing is followed through or developed. And, for a series that deals with time travel, very little regard is given to how life was actually lived in the various periods in which the stories are set. This makes each episode like a quick sugar hit - fun at the time but, ultimately, unsatisfying.

The Madam Vastra storyline is a case in point (by the way, the last thing I want to do is to resurrect the tiresome arguments from earlier about polluting the minds of our children. What tosh!). But if Moffat is going to write a love affair between two women in Victorian England then he has to be sensitive to what life would actually be like for them in that time and place. Not from some nerdy desire for historical accuracy but in the interests of good drama! For them to announce to all and sundry that they're married just wouldn't be an option (after all, it still raises eyebrows now, as various posts here have proved!), so it would be much more interesting to see how they deal with the pressures of the society that they live in.

And yes, I know it's supposed to be a kids' show, and a bit of fun! But we can still hope for something sophisticated and true to the universe in which it sets itself.

Yes, that is what he said, well done for your reading ability.


seconded and thirded.Doesn't even seem to understand people are invited here to discuss Doctor Who rather than prevent other people from talking about it.Probably cares more about attention than whether new Doctor Who is produced, especially if it doesn't conform with his opinions and trys to do something new.It's all just for the sake of continuing to suggest that Moffat produced and written Who isn't popular because he says so.Plus, anything he says is usually boring,unreasonable and ridiculous.He and his keyboard are just good friends.His ability to use a keyboard is the only way to spot the difference between him/her/thing and a Dalek.

He was in The Curse of the Fatal Death as the 10th Doctor as well, if you remember.

Yeah I see that. Apparently, the guy really needs a girlfriend.

I think that he is hinting at her being a Time Lady, but without the use of regeneration, only to find out she is actually Doctor Who's wife's cousin's step dad's hamster's brother's owner's auntie twice removed who has a tendencies to fake her death in impossible ways and stows away on the Tardis for a laugh.

"...all we need now is for Benedict Cumberbatch to turn up as The Master, and a nerdy Venn diagram is complete.'

If this happens... nerdgasm. Ian McKellen in "The Snowmen" was enough.

Two fave lines:

"Do not attempt to move or you will be obliterated. Can I take your coat?".
"Takes one to SNOW one..." (and the preceding laugh)

Wow.... for the people who are claiming some sort of Queer Conspiracy here - do you actually know any gay people? And if so, how many of them started playing for the other team because of something they saw on TV? It makes me kind of sad that in this day and age we still can't view homosexuals as 'regular people' but rather some sort of deviant sub-culture out to corrupt our moral compass.

"I knew it would upset people by saying it".. and suddenly your own agenda is made abundantly clear.. I'm tired of trolls pushing their trollish agenda on threads.. what they do under the comfort of their own bridges is their business, but I don't want it pushed down my throat..

Amy could be sarcastic and grumpy but i usually found that funny and not unjustified.She reminded me of Tegan the way she was written sometimes because she could be scary when annoyed.Don't really feel comparisons are fair until we know more about Clara/Oswin and how important she is to the Doctor.Jenna has said herself,she isn't really replacing Karen,she's a different character.

No shit,Sherlock,Oh,the guilt.

Yes, he's/she's failing to see the validity of a conspiracy theory that you seem to believe in but which has not been demonstrated to represent a real conspiracy that exists independent of your imagination. According to 'The Null Hypothesis' (the best fundamental piece of reasoning we have to distinguish between that which can be said with any authority to exist from that which can't), your supposed 'conspiracy' is purely an imaginary projection of your personal values until you can disprove that null hypothesis (in other words demonstrate with independently verified hard evidence that a real conspiracy exists). You can describe what you think you know about it and regurgitate as much 'special knowledge' that you think the 'sheeple' are 'blind' too (yes, heard this type of thing many times before in one guise or another) but that is just heresay passed on by those with the prerequisite biases and pre-existing likemided want to believe in the premise of the conspiracy theory in question whether it has any justifiable basis or not. That is unless you can point to a demonstration of independently verifiable evidence that your chosen interpretation of nothing very much at all corresponds to any kind of real 'conspiracy' or 'agenda' that is being perpitrated by real specifically identified people with a plausible set of goals and with likely gains worth undertaking the endeavour for. Without that, you have as good as nothing to base your extremely vague conspiracy theory upon...except your paranoia towards a strawman interpretation of things you don't think you don't like, or think you don't approve of.

Has anyone else noticed that forgetting/not forgetting things has been a mainstay of Moffat's Who since the start? From the crack in time to The Silence to Clara, I think the seeds for the anniversary were planted a long time ago! Incidentally, all the flickering lights stuff in the first half of the current series makes me think The Silence are back but haven't been noticed yet.

loved the christmas episode the only down side being the crappy new title sequence that bears more than a passing resemblence to sylvester mccoys titles and we all know where that ended up WORRIED.....

He just reuses story elements he creates (or borrows) -- rather too much, for my taste. Tweaks them a bit, makes a few changes, then throws together a reasonably brilliant new story, as if he were cooking! Maybe Clara's and Oswin's souffles are his own "in" joke...? Start with a girl who wants to travel but can't; kill someone off, then bring him/her back; jump back and forth quickly in time like magic; use remembering/forgetting; mix in various hats and the Doctor's friends from the past... bake and serve... :-)

A human in a relationship with an alien species doesn't seem to bother you but a human woman in a relationship with an alien woman does.

I think your reaction says more about you than it does about any "lesbian agenda".

(And, yes, I know that a Silurian isn't "alien" in the extra-terrestrial sense of the word but it is in the very different from the norm sense.)

Isn't the Doctor, an alien, kissing one of his human companions an example of deviant behaviour?

Somehow, as deviant as that is, I've never notice anybody going nuts over that...

Oh, Russell, you have lit up my day. Thank you.

I don't think you paid enough attention to the episode, I recommend you go back and watch it again. If any old family had started crying, nothing would have happened. It had to be that family because most or all of the snow was concentrated there, so when the family started crying, the main body of snow followed suit, converting the rest. Just as Clara turned the snowmen to water earlier in the episode, but on a grander scale.

Um...RTD rolled out the Santa's in every Christmas episode. Steven Moffat has given us the snowmen a grand total of...once.

I've been saying this since he took over!

Amy sucks, Clara sucks, next...

Yep. Blatantly obvious cop out from the moff

Clearly your family as no bloody taste in decent telly then. Or perhaps you are still under the insane impression Matt Smith can act?

Apparently a lot of you tasteless, brainless dolts are still assuring us true Whovians that Doctor Who is going from strength to strength. Well, get rid of Moffat and Smith (the worst thing to ever happen to this show) come back, and we'll talk. Dr Who used to be a fun program for all the family. Now it's a boring train wreck of interconnected, pointless, lead nowhere threads. I'm sure Moff just bangs this stuff out while he sleeps. Oh look it's a lesbian Silurian using tongue innuendos, isn't Moff clever?

No! No he isn't.

And it's an insult to all and sundy, those of us with half a bran at least, to be constantly told how great the Moff is. If he was half as good as you all claim, he wouldn't need you lot preaching his corner every episode, would he? His work would speak for itself. Alas, it doesn't. The only serviceable thing I can find in Who at the moment, is the sound department.

Please, next Christmas, can we have an episode that doesn't bore the country to sleep?



In moff-verse Who, the most powerful bad guys ever are easily defeated by a bout of crying that lasts five seconds. Pathetic

Also what's with his dialogue? Talk about pure garbage. I don't know why I bother watching this dreary show any more. I seriously can't wait till they get rid of Moff and Smiff.

Hey! The Great Intelligence speaks on the internet.I can't help feeling cold.

I can't even comprehend how mentally "backwards" you are! You're saying gay isn't normal but harsh reality is that it is normal, what's so different from a girl and boy loving to a girl and girl loving and vice versa. What's even worse is you think that a television show would try to promote shagging a corpse or moleste a child, which are both illegal acts and funnily enough, being a homosexual ISN'T illegal. Also where could the idea of 2 male presenters kiss and adopt a baby even come from? It's rare you even see same sex people kissing on younger children's TV never mind adopt a baby. The fact that Gay's and Lesbian's are in doctor who is to teach the younger audience about the real world, about how some people do love the same gender and to accept that like every other rational human being should!
Excuse me if I seemed rude at the beginning but your homophobic remarks where quite frankly appaling!

Yours Sincerely, an accepting human.

How many episodes of moff's as the Dr used the sonic to reset the universe? All of them, apart from the few where crying saves the day. I'm truly sad. I knew at the end of the mid break "Angels" that it would not improve. I really was rooting for it to, but it hasn't. Throwing in a new companion that will turn out to be the Doc's one episode plot-point daughter isn't going to fix that. There are so many things wrong with the show right now, I've already spent months highlighting them and still not got half way through. I'll watch the mini series about the origins of the show. God forbid I'll watch the episodes next year that have the classic monsters in them. But I rather doubt I will be any more impressed than I was on day one of SmiffMoff's tenure. Television shows are sinking to a new low. At first I put it down to the fact that I'm an old cynic. This is not the case. Only recently I watched a t.v show from 2003, and it was captivating. The stories, the characters, there was something there, It was about something. It contained morality issues, character arcs, it entertained and educated and yeah, I'm talking about a kid's show, too. So this change is something recent, and it is not just me being cynical. So what is fundamentally wrong with television today? It's hard to nail it specifically. But there is an underlying current of "commercialism please all" to everything now, and I do mean everything including Dr Who. It seems the entertainment industry as taken a massive turn for the worst, and in doing so as managed to do what none of the Doc's enemies have ever been able to do.

Killed Doctor Who.

I AM SUTEKH! I bring you the gift of death! :)

The master will be dead to me after that. Please, I know he's evil, but don't do that to the poor misunderstood chap!

Doctor Who is now "Sherlock Holmes in Space". True science fiction makes you think about fundamental issues such as; alternative forms of social organization, religion, the purpose of life, the nature of biology, the future of technology, etc. ....

The series has no substance because the writers have no aspirations (or ability) beyond trying to produce the science fiction equivalent of MacDonalds.

I know, you will all say it's just a kid's show, don't take it so seriously, but if that's the case, why do you all take it seriously enough to write about it on here every episode? Awfully loved up to a kid's show aren't you? It's a kid's show, right? So why are you on here every week saying it's the best thing on t.v, if you don't take it so seriously? A lot of you seem to have this opinion, it's great, but if anybody say's it isn't, let's just fall back on the old, "but it's a kid's show" argument to instantly dismiss the views of others. Look, I get that you will say it's good, even if it's complete rubbish, which it is, out of a sense of duty, and gratefulness that it is back on at all, but please, surely you can see that it's deteriorating rapidly, especially now it's being made solely for the Americans.

Awww, come on!! That would be epic. I mean, yes, for the new series, John Simm was an excellent Master. But who else would be that wicked? Maybe... Tom Hardy? Or how about... Robert Carlyle?

Matt Smiff, the Mr Bean of the Whoniverse

Anybody but a Moff regular. Using Simm was a Master-stroke, at the time due to L.O.M, and yeah, I can imagine the beeb will use Cumberland sausage to play the Master now, but, like Smith, he just doesn't appeal to me as an actor. It would be like a poshboy upper middle class meeting of the timelords, lol. No thanks.

I prefer my working class actors. They actually put some effort in.

Carlyle I can go with, deffo

I gotta say I'm with you on the "working class" actors. This is why I would've loved to see Christopher Eccleston stay on as the Doctor for at least another year. And yeah, maybe not Bandersnatch as the Master. But someone on par with Simm.

Bandersnatch, love it! Simm is a fantastic actor, I wouldn't mind seeing phillip glennister as a foul mouthed, boozed up, master. That would be awesome. Comedy gold and he's tough as an old brick. I was gutted when Chris left, at first, I couldn't warm to david, but by mid season, I was hooked. Then they went and hired MS, and it is my opinion, that DW is now seriously drab. Just can't warm to MS. And he's had nearly as long as dt. He's far too much like a poor man's version of dt, I know, the smiffmoff's will kill me now, lol.

Of course, nobody can top Tom as the Doc, he will always be the iconic image of the Dr. It's nice to talk to somebody who doesn't just dismiss you because you don't worship at the alter of SmiffMoff, lol

I cried when David left, I'll be celebrating when the bore Smiff goes.

Oh, come on, listen, I like Matt as the Doctor and all but I'm sorry, in my mind? Tennant WAS the Doctor in this era. He owned it. He got it. And I, too, was gutted when Eccleston left because I felt he was a Doctor that was as cynical as this generation is. And on top of that, he was just damn good. I like Smith's Doctor. But I just feel like we're not getting enough of the range of the show these days. The episodes end far too quickly. There's no sense of building to the dramatic climax. So that kind o' pisses me off. And I agree, Tom Baker was awesome. But I have to be honest, I'm all about Sylvester McCoy. I wish he had more time too. He's my fave classic Doc.

Dude, I will take Mccoy any day over MS. I don't know what it about Smiff, but I feel he as all the acting range of a carrot. He as no personality, charm or gravitas. He just is not like a doctor at all. So many are saying he is more akin to the doc's of old than DT, but I just don't see it. I'm really trying to, sure, he sort of looks like a doc, but he just doesn't have that weight to carry off the role, he reminds me of when we were kids and I played as the doc, lol. And I'll be honest with you right now, I'm a terrible actor, lol. But I knew it. I think Matt's one of these lucky privileged kids who bought his way into acting school, and his parents connections helped him get his foot in the door. They are trying so hard to make him cool, but he just isn't. I love all the other doc's equally. Tom and DT right at the top mind, but this guy just doesn't even compare. Not even to the one off Mcgan. Chris and DT are actors at the top of their game, replacing them with a guy who can't act, is a seriously bad move, lol. I'm guessing that's why they are incorporating the cgi and timey wimey no sensey plot lines to cover the shortfalls in matt's acting range. And don't get me started on the pond's lol. When all the prior companions left before them, I felt something. When they left, I couldn't care less. Maybe it had something to do with the dead rory-a-week in jokes, but when they went, I just didn't care.

McCoy rocks, he had this otherworldliness about him, and unlike MS, they didn't need to force it. By trying to make MS more alien, they are just making him dull, in my eyes, anyway.

I think Matt Smith's Doctor was too happy. Like in the opening scenes of "The Snowmen", I dug him being all sullen and withdrawn. I think he should stay that way. That's what made Eccleston's Doctor work. And McCoy works for me because towards the end of his run, he was much more than just The Doctor. I wish he'd have stayed on for them to flesh that out. With Smith, Troughton comes to mind (2nd Doctor). Just weird for no reason. But now we may see his emotional range. And can I just say that I LOVE Jenna Louise Coleman?! Because I do. I so very do.

Lol, I can buy the Coleman love, she's appealing on the eye. I don't know what it is about Smiff, but in the brief and rare occasions when he tries to portray anger, he comes across as a spoilt brat, and not in a good way. Any other Doc, I would love to be their companion, lol, but Smiff, I'd end up sticking the sonic where the sun doesn't shine, lol. He is more a stroppy teen who is emotionless, for the most part, sulky, but very underplayed, but like I said, not in a good way. I honestly believe that he is too young, and not experienced enough as an actor to take on the mantle of the Doc. And even after three seasons, more or less, it's like he is still waiting to take off in the role, just coasting, as it were. As poor as Karen was, to me, as an actress, rory was ok, she still out acted MS, which is just not good at all. He is meant to be the star of the show, for crying out loud, and he comes across as an extra, lol.

Just stop sending those multiple messages badmouthing the show, Steven Moffat and Matt Smith. I start wondering what your agenda is. If you're jealous of someone's success, stop now and start doing positive things for you instead of discrediting others and manipulating please...!!

Here's an idea for a new pathetic Who villain: a troll who has nothing better to do than waste space and talk to his multiple selves!

The only depressing thing about Doctor Who currently is having to endure your opinions and abusive comments .Notice here you describe the production values as slick but elsewhere you moan about how the only thing in the production that deserves praise is the sound design.Don't really care,anyway.

Just because one of us can see this show is suffering from the collapse under the weight of it's own success doesn't mean that person is a troll, does it? It's a common thing on the net these days to find that the gormless majority (who can't stand to hear the truth) will instantly shout the word "troll" as soon as somebody points out the many many flaws in a t.v show, one that used to cutting edge and ethically challenging.

I'll tell you what my agenda is, it is simply this, I want Dr Who to actually return to to the point, not long ago, mind, when it actually had something to say, instead of being the weak HP clone it has become.

Who do you think your kidding?You perpetually interfere with any attempt to discuss Doctor Who by making posts under separate identities and insist that anybody with a different opinion to you is stupid.Since any comment you make is inflammatory,irrational and offensive, a troll is a better definition of you than a Tennant shipper who can't cope now he's moved on professionally and never understood that Tennant worked on Doctor Who because he wanted it to continue to be successful.

It saddens and sickens me to see that so many of you will accept any mediocre nonsense as long as it carries your favourite brand name. No wonder society is becoming the way it is. Let me put it in Layman's terms, as I know you current era WHO fans struggle to grasp anything that isn't mumbled incoherently or that isn't hastily thrown into a jumble without thought to the plot conclusion.

Last night, I watched three episodes of Moff era Who, not because I wanted to, but for research sake, I managed to keep myself awake through them with lots of coffee, and those sweetex caffeine pills. The episodes were the three Moff Christmas specials. Then I watched an episode from RTD era, one that I loathed at the time, Love and Monsters. After that, I watched a few episodes of Genesis Of The Daleks from the classic series.

Let me tell you what I noticed. Gen is one of the best classic stories, hands down. Sure, the sets wobble, and the sfx are non existent however what it does have is feeling! It has heart, a soul, it's about something. It contains a story that get's the old noggin working, challenges your preconceptions, makes you question the elitist world around you. It's educational, as characterisation, it's funny, it's scary, it's logical. It's all round what sci-fi should be. Inspiring, meaningful, of substance. Worth watching.

Love And Monsters. As bad as it was, at least it was fun to watch. Sure, it's one of the worst ever of the New Who franchise (yep, the bbc have hollywoodised Dr Who for profits) and at certain points, I had to close my eyes to it's abundant badness, but, like I said, it was still mostly fun to watch, and entertaining, in parts. It wasn't overly logical, or had any depth, but strangely, again, it was fun to watch!

Now, onto the three specials from Moff . Every one of them suffers from the same issues. Illogic, lacklustre, drab, unengaging, dull, overtly fanciful, overtly complex (but not in a good way) self indulgent, pointless, shallow, sci-fi lite, mundane and banal, no character development, nonsensical plots, same outcome every episode, degrading and insulting to viewer's intelligence. As somebody once said, current era who is the Sci-fi lite equivalent of fast food. it looks nice, smells good, but is bad for your indigestion. I know the Moff defenders will say, they are meant to be like that, they are Christmas specials, well, maybe so, but every single one of Moff's episodes is like this. Especially in the standard series. And I don't care how much Moff and the bbc deny this, but when they start splitting episode runs, on the eve of such a big mile-stone in t.v history, you know the show is in trouble.

But apparently people can't see how bad something is if it's disguised with flashy production values and dialogue written by a ten year old.

It's a testament to how gullible (or maybe just plain stupid) the people in this country are today. You can feed them a plate of worms, and as long as you wrap it in a nice bow, and tell them constantly it's the best thing ever, they will eat it.

I don't think Hinchcliffe ,Holmes,Baker and Sladen made that story with the intention of one of their viewers going'I want to be just like Davros'. Seems to me you kind of missed the point.

Listen, just because you are in the minority of one, doesn't mean you are mad. I wouldn't have to post under different aliases if people didn't boo me of stage, as it were, the moment I write my own opinion of WHO as it is now. As I've just said, society is so gullible these days they will accept anything, unquestioningly. Current era WHO is prof of that. Just because it has good ratings doesn't mean it's of any merit, or substantial quality. It just means far too many morons will watch a humdrum, dull show because they are told it's "cool" constantly, the biggest culprit of this appears to be the star of the shoe himself. New ear WHO is a fad. By making it appeal to everyone, they have lessened any integrity it once contained, It's not just this show that suffers from this. It's all shows, now. Also music. And films. Comparing this Who to real Who is like comparing Prometheus to Alien. It's not even in the sane game, let alone league. How much more will you so called intelligent Who fans allow this once great pillar of t.v become diluted before you realise your complacency will be the death of it?

I know it's pointless writing all this, as most people these days are far too thick, and narrow-minded to hear the views of anybody else who doesn't follow the trend. Alas, I fear I must try, lest the world goes insane, which it's well on it's way to doing.

At least there was a story, as opposed to the drivel that is pumped out these days

Yet another current era intelligent who fans wildly missing the point and condescends

You're opinions don't justify being abusive, malicious and interfering with other people discussing and expressing their opinions.

Lol. That's rich coming from a fan of the moff, every one of you is abusive to anybody who doesn't worship the guy and think he is the second coming.

I've met some mad fanbois in my time, but you moff-heads are by far the biggest

and god forbid any of you moff-bois get a sense of humour. Outside the chisseled in, pointedly obvious humour incorporated in this now train wreck of a show:)

People who shout "troll" as soon as the opposition turns up, are clearly "Fan-bois". Which is a far worse thing to be than "troll". People who shout "troll" in their first and only line of defence against the opposition are clearly not intelligent enough to be watching DR WHO

And what's the big underlying theme in WHO this year?


All wrapped up in time for Easter, where the populace will rush to Asda to buy easter Eggggs, designed in WHO packaging, for their fan-boi children!

Ok, I guess you like/love David Tennant/RTD era. I love Moffat/Smith's and I'm more than happy Matt Smith is not leaving - he's an awesome Doctor. That's not just me, just look at the most popular posts - the majority of viewers loved the Christmas episode. Anyway, you are fully entitled to your opinion, and I understand your... say... anger, but creating an artificial crowd of "dislikes" is simply not fair. And, after all, David Tennant decided to leave the show, so why target Moffat/Smith? Dr Who is about change and is also supposed to be whimsical and abstract from the very beginning (this is why I think Matt is better than David), it's not just classical sci-fi. If you don't like it, you can watch Torchwood... or Lost.

As for me, the more I think about it, the more I am conviced Moffat is a genius. I think his scripts, also all the literary/TV allusions, intertextuality and connecting points in the scripts are great, dialogues - superb, and having Matt as the Doctor is a very good decision - he's capable of portraying the Doctor in many different ways, but every single portrayal is perfect. Humour, warmth, abstraction, suspension of disbelief, beautiful shots, suspense - what else do I need in a TV show?

Sorry, I just happen to LOVE the current Dr Who... It is one of the best things I've ever watched on TV.

If you consider Moffat a genius, then you really ought to check out some real script-writers. I suggest any from the classic WHO era before the C.B years. Mostly, that is real talent. Check out Seeds Of Doom or Genesis Of The Daleks. Moffat couldn't write this good in his wildest dreams. I guarantee they will blow your mind, if you truly consider Moff, a genius.

Why can't Moff, the uber genius, write female characters? Even in Jekyl, the only thing he's written with any merit, only because I love the book and James N, he couldn't write a non cliché, sexist, throwback to the 50's era, female character?

Clara, Oswyn, Amy, River all the same generic character. It's almost as if they are interchangeable at all points. River could quite easily take the role of Amy and vice versa. I'm a bloke myself, but even I am now sick to the back teeth of the sexist stereotyping that the genius Moff writes, endlessly.

Why can't the genius Moff even write his own established continuity Every one of his episodes has been all over the place, continuity wise. Asylum of the daleks being a prime example. When was it established that the daleks started referring to the Doc as "Predator"? It wasn't. Not ever, only in this sole episode, which makes no kind of coherent sense. Except perhaps in the Moff's head, and sorry Moff, but we can't read your mind. And when it was established they did call him "predator" they immediately switched back to calling him "Doctor" two seconds later! What the hell? Come on Moff, that is some seriously flawed, sloppy writing, right there.

Throwaway lines to cover plot-holes or major story exposition.

If Rory already knew Amy couldn't have kids,which he did because when she mentioned it, in a very underwhelming way, he said "I know" why did she feel the need to tell him again, right in the middle of a dire situation? I know why, It's called an info dump. It's what poor writers use to cover their discrepancies when don't have the ability to convey their information to the audience. She was telling us, the viewer that she couldn't have kids. That would be ok, if there had in fact been any emotional weight or resonance behind it. There wasn't. It was a sloppily thrown in line that meant exactly nothing. No dramatic effect at all.

This Christmas episode, is exactly the same. Nothing mattered. Already I'm sick of seeing the companion die. And she isn't even on the Tardis yet! Is this gonna be another Rory dies to pointlessness routine? Yes, I fear it is because Moff just keeps rehashing his tired old nonsense over and over. Nothing original, nothing subjective, it's all just mindless fodder that means diddly squat. Already I hear you bleat, "but Moffs a genius, he'd never stoop to that level of naff-ness." No? Really? Wait and see

When it turns out Clara is Jenny, "but moff's a genius, he'd never stoop to that level of obvious naff-ness!" and you all realise, that guy on Den was right, perhaps you will be willing to listen then. But by then it will be too late. dr WHO will continue to sink past mediocrity, into obscurity. When a 6yr old can pull gaping holes in your plot threads, the future of the show you write for, is indeed, grim.

"The Doctor, The Widow, and the Wardrobe" (I see what the genius Moffat did there! What a clever play on word for the title!)is nearly as good as "Smith And Jones"

I say nearly, because the latter episode title was far more cleverly constructed than any of the Moff's titles have ever been, ever.

Clara Oswyn will be Jenny, the Doctor's one episode plot point daughter. But to shake things up a bit, The Grande Moff will once again forget his own continuity (busy with those three episodes of Sherlock, you see) and instead of Jenny being the product of the Progenitor Machine 10 encountered on Fishworld, she will now be the direct, biological offspring of the Doctor and River.

I kid you not

You'll see.

Say what you like about Russel, but he never made these massive errors, week in, week out.

Susan will be Jenny's daughter, the Doctor's granddaughter, tying everything nicely into 1963 and the 50th anniversary, splendidly. Bet this post gets pulled, if any cohorts of the beeb see it. Don't want this massive spoiler getting out.

Nice to see at least one of these arguments ending nicely.

Blah, blah, blah. Are you 6? Please go to hell and stay there, okay?

No one cares. You're insane, alone, and sad. Please forget how to post here. Thanks.

That makes about as much sense as one of Moff's fixed time plot points. And you are seriously wrong, my friend. I'm not alone. Not alone at all, in fact. After scouring the interweb since Moff took over I have come to found that only a select few, on here, seem to be happy with the show. Now, you could say, it's doing great, ratings are up.... Are they? This Snowman special couldn't even break the 8 million mark. Previous RTD era specials were pulling in over 14 million. If the show is doing so well, how do you account for that? The fact is, the hardcore fanbase are turning away in droves, leaving only the few younger viewers who will quickly grow bored, and the few fad hippsters who will watch until it's no longer considered cool And how long do you suppose this "coolness" factor will last? Remember The Spice Girls? They were cool for awhile, now where are they? That's right, drifted into obscurity The only thing stopping the bbc pulling the plug on this show, is the million or so that watch it worldwide. And considering there are 6 billion people on Earth, these figures are minute. As you know, america trends burn out fast. This show will have the american shelf life of half of something like The Sopranos. Let me assure you, after the 50th anniversary cash in, this show will be destined for the shelf, again. And guess who is responsible for that? The genius hack himself, your masterMoff. Don't say I didn't warn you.

A truly insane person would swear that something that is sub-par and rubbish, is the best thing ever:)

Hello there Under(insert variation).

Over a few years I have actually managed to amass a classic Doctor Who 'video' collection which spans every single story (even those from the Hartnell and Troughton eras that fell victim to the BBC's infamous 'let's wipe/bin some old tapes' policy and now only exist in the form of audio and reconstructions from stills. Anyway, I've watched my way through the whole lot at least twice as well as watching most from midway through Tom Baker's tenure when they were originally broadcast (I'm 38). The upshot is that I can say with some degree of authority that I have a pretty good overview of the history of Who old and new. That's just to give some idea of my 'credentials' so to speak.

The one overall impression that I think most honest balanced viewers of the entire body of work to date would form is that quality-wise, from both 1963-1989 and 2005-2012 we're talking about quite a mixed bag. Personally speaking there are many notably great stories, but there are actually at least as many that are either only just adequate, borderline interesting and/or not quite fulfilling their potential. There are also rather more stories than our childhood memories may have lead us to believe that are frankly dull with far too thin an idea padded out to far too many episodes, and sometimes poorly written, directed, cast or acted and generally very disappointing from either a science fiction or dramatic stance.

Realistically of course, that is only to be expected when dealing with a body of work of such volume. Many disappointing stories probably seem more so because they stand in such stark contrast to the stories that really work (I started making out a list of those I rate highly but it was looking like turning into an essay). Since you mentioned how much you rate 'Genesis of The Daleks' (one of the best stories ever made as many would agree, and obviously one of my favourites too, so nothing new there), I was thinking that since you're not shy about saying what you don't like, it might be interesting to find out which classic Who stories really DIDN'T work for you? Can you list your five least favourite (not counting 'Moff' as that would apparently be far too easy).

I only ask, because I feel that the 'mixed bag' malady is something that has always afflicted Doctor Who from 1963 until now and so it may be a little misrepresentative to only compare the best examples of classic Who with what Moffat is producing today. I've always loved sci fi on film, tv and in literature and I've enjoyed Doctor Who ever since Tom Baker's wild eyes (according to my Mum) used to scare my five year old self much more than the monsters, but I can honestly say (and risk blasphemy in maybe your eyes and the eyes of others) that I don't view Doctor Who as the best tv show ever made or even the most consistently good sci fi tv show ever made (although when it is (and has been) at its best it has been among the best sci fi tv ever made). However much I enjoy a story in terms of writing and acting, or don't enjoy it, I hope I never lose perspective on what function a piece of entertainent is designed to serve and take it personally, or take views of it that differ from mine personally, particularly when I can't claim any personal credit for it. I do care enough about Doctor Who and (fiction in general) to critiscing something that disappoints me (or to build a bloody great collection apparently) and hopefully do it with coherent and constructive consideration. For example, I was disappointed that the Star Trek reboot had some fairly dumb 'crash bang wollop', generic pseudo-scientific plotting rather than something thought provoking, but that said, I was so impressed with the casting (particularly Urban's McCoy) that overall, I got a very 'warm, happy' feeling about it and its future. They probably haven't, but if they have injected some classic Trek 'big ideas' into the new film, that'd be even better. Then there's The Hobbitt. I was quite cynical about the decision to make a shortish comparatively smallish scale tale into a trilogy. A trilogy? LOTR barely fits into a trilogy and is supposed to be EPIC, but the an EPIC trilogy? I did enjoy revisiting Middle Earth, but in terms of padding the obvious lack of source material (appendages probably work better as appendages and not within the main text so that they don't interrupt the flow of the story too much), my reservations about turning a relatively small scale tale into a LOTR scale epic was unfortunately not completely assuaged by seeing part 1. I was also only too aware of the unfortunately underwhelmed reaction I had to Prometheus. You suggest it doesn't compare well to Alien and when it was unmistakenly aspiring to be like Alien (despite how Scott tried to play that down before the film's release) I agree with you. I also thought it compared unfavourably to 2001, Solaris, and also to a degree to Bladerunner (although David was a fantastically played 'replicant' as much as he was Ash's predecessor and was the one element that really worked well). But Ridley Scott in 2011 wasn't the same hotshot young ad director from Blighty in 1979 that had to use ingenious efficiency and economy to get as much impact from a tight script and relatively modest budget as possible so perhaps comparing Scott past with his Hollywood veteran mega-budget present is to expect something that nobody could realistically deliver. He isn't alone. The same director that made The Terminator and Aliens (and to his credit considering expectations, Terminator 2) near the beginning of his career also made Titanic and Avatar. I know which of those movies I enjoy most time after time. Anyway, as long as I make my case once or maybe twice and then get back to other business long before repeating the same sentiment over and over and over until people become so bored and irritated by reading in essence the same thing that they have no further interest in anything else I have to say (particulary if I've also been insulting anyone that doesn't agree). Hopefully then folks won't think the cheese has slipped off my cracker and start ignoring me. I probably fail sometimes, but who doesn't lose perspective sometimes?

So, if not Who, what do I think the finest piece of tv I've seen this year is, or in the last five years, or maybe ever? I can answer that easily. Breaking Bad. (I don't think I've 'crossed the Neutral Zone into non-genre no-man's-land there because it is regularly reviewed on this very site so I imagine my geek credentials are still in order. I love Doctor Who for all its flaws, but to put it in perspective, Breaking Bad is as near flawless as television can conceivably get. But if someone doesn't like Breaking Bad or doesn't think it's the greatest peice of tv they've seen, that's okay because not everyone gets the same enjoyment out of the same things. If someone loves everything Star Trek, or loves Star Trek TOS but hates TNG, or loves TNG but hates Voyager, or hates all Trek before the reboot, or vice versa, that's down to their personal priorities whatever they may be. If someone doesn't like Doctor Who, or loves classic Who but hates new Who, or recognises and accepts good and not so good things about Doctor Who old and new, then that is also absolutely fine in the scheme of things. They are completely within their rights and it shouldn't be any skin of anyone else's noses.

You may not reply to this, but if there's one thing I hope you don't do, it is to launch a 'strawman' attack claiming that I'm just some 'Moff-head' as you put it when I have genuinely gone to efforts to demonstrate that if there are indeed 'Moff-heads' with a one track agenda to condemn those that dare criticise that one writer, I am certainly not aming them. I haven't even explicitly disagreed with you so please don't fall for such a self-defeating fallacy as it simply renders communication pointless. Thanks hopefully in advance

What would happen if "Doctor who?" is answered? That whatever mystery is left in the Doctor's character would vanish; rendering the whole show, as presently conceived, invalid. Thus, Silence would fall... for the show as it exists. Whether that means the show will end on its 50th anniversary or mutate into something else remains to be seen. I'd opt for letting the Doctor rest in peace. There are so many other things they could do, any number of spin-offs to keep the spirit of WHO alive. whilst maintaing the Doc's last shred of dignity. Please, I don't want the question to be answered. Tjat will only hasten the end of the TimeLord. After this revelation, there will be nowhere else to go. I mention this because in The Snowmen, the recurring question (along with eggggggggggs) was brought up again.

See, I haven't attacked Moffat at all here. I've drafted a very valid post about the "big question" arc, that seems to have encased the whole Moff era. Bet I still get voted down though.

Why does a genius like Moff steal plotlines from something as childish as Power Ranger-Neo? Or The Powerfpuff Girls? Slate me if you want but, it's only true.

So Colin Baker was the worst doctor ever but matt smiff is the best?

What the heck are you people smoking?

Colin was a sublime doctor, and at least he could act, unlike ms

The episode it self was very good and I love the new design of the TARDIS interior, there where some very flat moments, understandable really after all the Doctor is still trying to recover after 'The angels take Manhattan' episode but I do wonder why River hasn't helped the Doctor as they could help each other with the lose. The cliffhanger like ending was a stroke of brilliance and I can't wait to see what they come up with on the whole story of Clara Oswin Oswald. I hope Jenny as in the Doctors daughter will return as she would really help the Doctor I think. A lot to speculate from the Christmas special but that is all we can do until the next few episodes of Doctor Who and I honestly can't wait

Happy new year, geeks.


Reciprocated and returned.Hope you want to celebrate Doctor Who on Nov 23rd.

I do. I get a lot of stick on here for not being a big fan of Moff and Smith. But thank you. I'm sure this year will be an awesome year for us, even if I don't like the current format, I am really looking forward to the "origins" show.

Please try and not think of South Park. It's utter juvenile rubbish compared to Dr Who.

It looks like Clara can die in one time period and then will reappear in another. Is this a different version of a Timelord? Where, instead of regenerating in the same time period in a different body, they regenerate in a different time period? Almost like an inverse Weeping Angel type of thing. Hmmm. Also, why is the show "breaking the fourth wall" (acknowledging the camera and therefore the audience at home) so often lately? Is this all still related to there being "no ducks in the duck pond?" Is the big BIG reveal going to be that these stories over the last number of years have been the imaginings of a young Amelia Pond? Or are we all still in the Library and Tennant has to come and rescue his future self who has been stuck there? Or are these the stories that River tells her children in the Library? Interesting to see what Moffat will bring.

Uguessedit - Clearly you are an idiot. I didn't much care for it but I've not got a problem with people liking it. Just because you don't like it, doesn't make you right. No need to insult the man's family just because you have a chip on your own shoulder about Matt Smith's acting. He never mentioned what he thought about the show himself, he said his kids enjoyed it. What exactly is your problem with that?

wow. Reading your thread Shane and Rani makes me feel I'm not alone in this Whoniverse. Now i once stated I was not happy with the state of things especially with the Ponds and the River Song nonsense, but i also said i like Who in anyform so please no one else shout at me! I liked the RTD era he brought us the good doctor back! While i may not have loved Slitheen or Absorbaloffs, I did love Chris and especially David (I agree too - He embodied what i see the Doctor as perfectly-IMHO), and the comedic moments and satisfactory plot lines, even though they may not be Mofftastic left me drooling for more week after week...just rewatched Stolen Earth and Journeys End ona BBCamerica marathon and it still rocked. I dont hate Moffet. His single standalone (and two part) eps during RTDs tenure are some of the best Who in the current era. just feel as you guys do now, I keep watching because I love Who and I do get entertained so mission accomplished, but it just doesnt grab me anymore. Yes i shed a tear or two when Amy left. But honestly it was an emotional scene and im a bleeding heart lol. But when Rose had to say good bye at Bad Wolf bay I was a blubbering idiot. i felt like that emotion was real, The Doctor had a true companion. felt that when he had to memory wipe Donna as well (my favorite cureent who companion). I did not like Amy about 3 episodes into her tenure. Rory vastly improved that dynamic I liked him. But honestly I just couldnt wait for them to go. I hope we soon get a final farewell to River as well where Doc gives her the old Sonic rebuilt...LOVED Jenna Coleman. Great start was shocked with her finish there but am intrigued on where it goes from here...but it does look like another Moff "the companion is the center of the Whoniverse" again...But at this point my expectations have been lowered so much I now am able to enjoy it for just being Who. I am an old fan, Baker - Davison era especially (sorry wasnt a big McCoy fan) and was ecstatic at the good Doctor's return in 2005. It just doesnt "grab" me like it used to, it just seems Moffet tries to hard to be clever for clever's sake. But on to this episode: i loved it. It was fun. LOVED the new interior of the TARDIS. shout back to the old with a hint of new thrown in. Richard E Grant was phenomenal. couldve used more of him though. ice bitch not so much but again expectations low so i accept that stuff. I am looking forward to April very much - not as much as March 31st and the season 3 premiere of GOT however - and that saddens me as usually its the good Doctor's adventures I used to look forward to more than anything! But currently Walking Dead and GOT are far superior shows. i do really wanna check out Sherlock though I read no bad about it, and that Benedict chap looked great in the Star trek prologue and trailer whoever he is playing...Happy New Year to all and I cant wait for the 50th anniversary!!! i am stoked! I hope Tennant will be playing the actual Doctor from another timeline having to work with Matt and not the half human one stuck in the alternate universe...i dont know why i just feel like the "real" Doctor needs to be back...Bye bye ponds and hullo Oswin! peace!

I agree with your post 100%! "The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances" was I believe a Moff creation and they remain two of my faves. You're right though - Moff tries too damn hard to be clever. RTD had you going back over old eps to catch stuff that seemed inconsequential until the finale. With Moff, that grand sense of building is gone. And I hate that. But I love Who so I shall keep watching.

Go on, go on...

Thanks for the comment! I really cant figure out why it is but these last two years (season 6 eps 3-13 to be more accurate, with one or two exceptions like God Complex) have just been crap for me...i stress FOR ME. I am excited other people get excited because that means more Who for years to come. I hate to agree with Under_ but some of what he says (when the arguement is intelligent and not rambling) holds merit, at least for us non-Moffetized. I agree, Empty child/Doctor Dances was Moffet at his best for me, GITF, etc...Smith Era I loved the van Gogh episode, God Complex as mentioned above, The Doctors Wife was much better for me on second viewing (its hard for an old, stubborn fan to imagine the TARDIS a corporeal being, despite knowing she is alive). But just an example of what I mean: bad comedy that for me did not connect at all: when Matty missed the hammock in the 2011 xmas special in the kids room. Ugh. I like Who comedy in short doses (such as David and catherine's scene in the unicorn and the wasp when he was poisoned - pure comedy gold - for me), but I do not necessarily like slapstick (usually)..but again I know I am biased so i apologize to all Moff folks out there. some of RTDs stuff was camp too no doubt. I did like During Snowmen the banter between Doc and the Sontaran. That was pretty funny gotta admit. the Sherlock bit made me chuckle too but not for the same reasons the rest did as i have not seen Moffs Sherlock yet (I will dont worry). I did not really ever have to go back on RTDs seasons to catch up, to understand and enjoy finales, but i gotta say i watch and rewatch and rerewatch season 5-6 episodes and STILL needed TARDInSexy to explain it all to me! I thank him for that to this day. That shouldnt be necessary. I still really dont know if all plot lines have been settled I never felt closure for anything except maybe the Cracks being sealed due to Big Bang 2 finale. But The Wedding of River Song finale was about the worst Who i have seen since farting slitheens. And I actually rewatch those eps. as well as the Daleks in manhattan (ugh). Id rather see that monstronsity (not in a cool scary way either) Dalek human hybris squid face then that finale episode. People complain about super-doctor tennant yet Matt can escape death (a fixed point in time by the way) and dress like the Messiah Himself beard and all, and its ok. Huh? Hey people like what they like and they sometimes judge what they dont. I loved the Master three parter and the resolution. i cannot say the same for the end of season 6. i was just left scratching my head and I did rewatch it with no satisfaction (actually got bored with it). So, whats my point? i dunno I am just rambling! Sorry. My idea of the Doctor (in my personal favorite order): Tennant, T. Baker-Davison (tie), Pertwee, Troughton, Hartnell, C. baker, Eccleston, Smith, Mcgann (only due to so little screen time unfortunately), McCoy (although he was awesome as Radagast in Hobbit! made me wanna rewatch all his classic who stuff). Favorite RTD era episode: midnight (RTD story) followed closely by the Moff written eps mentioned above. Oh and Season 4 two part finale Davros friggin rocks. Favorite Moff era eps: mentioned above, as well as Town called Mercy, abd the season 6 two part opener strangely enough...hahaha... My new years wish is all former living doctors appear in the 50th i dont care if its for 5 minutes and its campy times 100 worse then Five Doctors (which to this day I think is one of the all time best despite Tom not participating and hartnell no longer with us)...everybody loved five doctors dont even try to deny it! peace everybody!

OK! So, Bert knows she's a time traveler; they've had a romantic relationship, but since she never ages she's much older than he is, so she backed off -- like the Doctor does with his human companions. Mary is always on call to help troubled children/families, whether muggle or magical, and chooses to save the universe one child at a time. (See what happens when you encourage me? Big mistake. Can't tell I'm a fantasy writer, can you... oh no, not at all.)

So is this building to something? Like i really loved the episode but is this a new arc or just more of the same arc. It just seems that the other seasons still haven't answered the questions it raised. Does anyone else think this?

I am utterly fed up and bored of two things in Dr. Who. The first is constantly setting episodes on Earth. The second is the young female companions. Why can't we have male or alien companions for a change. Why not set some episodes on different planets a bit more often? Sorry but Victorian London is bloody dull and boring. This is a timelord, FFS, with the ability to go anywhere in the entire universe. Why not show us a bit more and broaden the scope a little. It is becoming formulaeic to the point where it feels like a parody of itself now. This Christmas 'special' typified the problem for me. Sorry to be a wet blanket... I want to like Dr. Who again, but I'm getting really fed up of the 'same old same old' being trawled out over and over again. It's time to think outside of the little blue box and make it interesting again.

Sadly this appears to be the formula which is unbreakable. I imagine if he had a male companion or any companion who wasn't a 20-something girl, the universe would explode because of some quantum distortion or something. Or at least that's what the writer seems to believe... it's the only logical explanation I can think of.

Season 6 highlights for me: "The Doctor's Wife", "The Rebel Flesh/The Almost People", "Night Terrors", and "The God Complex". And I will say that "Vincent and The Doctor" brought me to TEARS at the end. TEARS. The season 6 opener annoyed me. It just did. Another Moff goodie: "Blink"!! THAT episode there will always be awesome. I do hope all living Doctors show up on the 50th Anniversary, at the VERY least, the 5th - 7th.

There are practical difficulties with casting an actress as an alien considering the programmes production schedule.It would be very uncomfortable and expensive probably.I disagree that the programme is currently formulaic when we've just had our first newlywed couple travelling with the Doctor and he is in a very open marriage with River Song,to the extent that it's debatable if they really are.Moffat tends to include visits to Alien planets although the whole stories are never set there.

Rory is suddenly not male anymore?

I have just one problem with this episode. What was up with the winding staircase, it didn't know if it was winding left or right. (Note how Clara got on the stairs and then look closely how she got off the stairs)

26 is also the age of Jenna-Louise Coleman herself.

One quick reference; the episode did not revel in any self-important soap opera that a previous producer would have done instead...

Times have changed. Previous producers doing such things would be lambasted.

I blame JNT for this. Everyone loves to blame him for everything...

More freelancers and other forms of privatization?

Save your prejudices. And be glad you don't have to run a government.

Get out more. The fresh air will help you.


It felt as if it were a normal story, grafting Xmas on. Rather than the other way around.

'twas a nice change...

The Doctor was a tad racist with the Sontaran jokes, and despite the duo showing much promise with Strax being a companion, there's still much of his backstory missing...

I'd almost prefer to see Vastra and Strax as companions; aliens who are not entirely humanoid... heck, the last time we had a non-human companion was... Turlough.

I didn't really care for this episode. Coleman brought a great energy and zest, but I dislike the way her character is written. Perfect and loved by all, with some minor inconsequential quirks and no family. And flirty. I'm sick of the flirting companions.

And what is up with the Doctor suddenly making all those Xenophobic jokes about his Sontaran friend? It's like he's suddenly prejudiced against aliens who don't happen to look like himself. For no reason.

Also, the snow monster thing had no real internal logic. A crying family stops it? Wouldn't there be plenty of crying families when they attacked everyone in the world? That was just a deus ex machina. And don't get me started on the screwdriver's new 'antifreeze' setting.

The one-word answer game was gimmicky and pointless. It was the "and now we're testing a new companion" episode. It's not like they fell in together naturally. She followed him through the streets for no apparent reason other than he appeared at the same time as a weird snowman. She shows no normal reactions, (wonder, fear, amazement) at seeing aliens and memory worms.

And what is up with picking on the Victorian era? Cold? That's just projecting our modern values back to a time where they don't belong.

And emo doctor. He was the worst of all. He's depressed about Amy and Rory who led full, happy lives? It's like he's lost his play thing and is pouting. And he's just mean to the three people helping him out of his funk. And he never has to say he's sorry. And he's never wrong.

I mean no harm here, but I'd like to point out that I love the Moff's work while I disapprove of his personality and work ethic. Saying 'every one of you is abusive to anybody who doesn't worship the guy' is ludicrous. Stop over-exaggerating, please.

Id like to point out as a gay man that no, being gay is not fashionable. If it were, everyone would wear me - but alas.

There's no need for any references to other shows! Sure, you'd get the right to say 'oh, I know that reference! It's from ______!' but it gets pretty boring after a while - especially when there's a tiring Game of Thrones reference.
(Also, saying that winter is coming when it's already christmas? Not really, even if it's metaphorical.)

Hello Dalek.

To be fair, Rory was more of a companion of the companion.

I was not in love with this episode and am mildly surprised by the raves it has gotten here. My history with Doctor Who begins with David Tennant, however, so possibly this impacts my ability to fully appreciate the subtleties of this episode. The central plot was blaah and nothing was scary to me. I do like the new companion; the mysteries surrounding her are intriguing and I appreciated the ladder to the clouds and that bit. It seems to me that Steven Moffat's creative genius is both a blessing and a curse. His complicated plot lines can get so convoluted that the only way to resolve them (as in River Song) is through a disappointing deus ex machina. He plays so fast and loose with time travel paradoxes that he loses credibility at times. The problem is he raises our expectations so high, that when he does solve the mysteries, they are almost always disappointing. I think he tried accomplish too much in this episode. (Bye the way, doesn't the Tardis change only when the doctor does? )

The Doctor: she mentioned what two words... Donnah? what two words??
Donna: Jimmy Savile..

Reptilian Lesbians yes can't think what that would be revealing to young children, sickening.

If only you knew the real truth.

Oh, you're absolutely right - it was so very subtle when Gwen sprung Jack and Ianto shagging in the Hub's hothouse (Season 2: Adrift). I had to think *really* hard about what I'd seen to make any sense of what their relationship might possibly be.

And then of course, after 3 seasons of beating around the bush, once Ianto and Jack *finally* came out as a couple verbally (and Ianto came out to his sister), they killed one half of this "quiet but powerful" relationship off. Because happily ever after just isn't in the cards for teh gays, don'tcha know.

What annoys me most about this rubbish, is that if Vestra had said, "I'm a lizard woman from the dawn of time and that's my husband," nobody would have batted a friggin eyelid. There'd be no, "Oh, I wish they'd been more subtle about it," or "Think of the children!" You know what? Gays and lesbians (and all manner of others on the spectrum) exist. We marry (where we can - others stay together for longer than most hetero marriages these days). We have kids. We watch Doctor Who. And you know what? It's nice sometimes to see someone like us represented (just as I'm sure it is for other minorities). Now, if she'd said, "I'm a lizard woman from the dawn of time and that's my come and watch us shag," then you'd have something to complain about it being inappropriate for the timeslot/intended audience. As it was, my 10 & 13 year-olds thought it was cool...and I'll take their view over yours any day.

That tape measure of her's is psychic paper and you see what she wants you to see

The Snowmen is one of my favourite Doctor Who episodes, even though the Snowmen themselves were underused. Unlike many of Moffat's scripts, it doesn't have a timey-wimey plot but has beginning, middle and end in that order; the only timey-wimey thing about it is the origin of the Great Intelligence and its link to Patrick Troughton's era of Doctor Who. I love timey-wimey plots but it's nice to see that Moffat can also write plots in a straight line.

The actors and actresses were all brilliant. My favourite is Jenna-Louise Coleman who is a fantastic actress and, in my opinion, the most beautiful woman in Doctor Who history. She played the role of Clara brilliantly giving an energetic and cheerful performance that had some flirting but it was more subtle than her flirting in Asylum of the Daleks. Jenna can show emotion brilliantly such as when she showed that Oswin was shocked and devastated about being turned into a Dalek and when she started crying about what the Daleks had done to her. She really made me feel sorry for Oswin in that episode and I often cry when I watch that scene. In this episode she cried again but they were tears of joy when the Doctor gave her the TARDIS key and only turned to tears of sadness when she knew she was dying. Jenna can show emotion brilliantly and can also deliver lines with perfect timing such as when Matt Smith said "Clara Who?" and she instantly responded "Doctor Who" as well as the following lines "Dangerous Question" followed by Clara's "What's wrong with dangerous?", which shows that she really can rival Matt Smith when it comes to talking quickly. She also has a great talent for changing her voice and accent, which is most notable when she changes from being Clara to Miss Montague, but was also shown in Asylum of the Daleks with her line "Unauthorised personal may not enter the cockpit". Clara is my favourite Doctor Who companion, even though she hasn't actually started travelling with the Doctor yet.

13. Series 7 Finale

Written by Steven Moffat. Directed by Saul Metzstein.

Moffat described it as “One that will thrill you a bit, and worry you more. Yes, I think you’ll be just a tiny bit worried where we might be going with this one.” The paternoster gang are back once again. Also rumoured to feature the return of River Song and Dr Simeon.

Guest starring: Neve McIntosh (Madame Vastra), Catrin Stewart (Jenny), Dan Starkey (Strax), Alex Kingston (TBC), Michael Jenn (Clarence)

So, you all doubted me when I said Moff's big reveal in 2013 will be that Clara is Jenny. You also doubted me when I said the Dr will be killed off this year (best time to do it eh at the 50th anniversary) and would be replaced by new time= lady Jenny. But the dr can regenerate, right? Wrong, he's used up all his regenerations and that throwaway line in SJA doesn't count. remember you heard this here first. And before you claim I'm making this up, here's the link,

Yes, I'm so looking forward to Nurse Who.

It won't let me post the link but google "Doctor Who TV uk what we know" and see for yourself. The Moff as done what no foe of the doc's as ever been able to do, kill off the timelord. It doesn't say the doc will die, but that's where we are heading, trust me. BBC is so predictable these days and they have wanted a woman Doctor since the reboot.

Well its is Doctor Who , it's the logic of the show that prevails and teh unoverse , not that of the viewer . The Snow is a empty medium requiring emotion as teh power . All teh Doctor does is high jack it and break it ? A good plot device , how many villians honetsly (or would bother ) building safe guards into a weapon .

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