The plot holes and paradoxes of the Back To The Future trilogy
The Back To The Future trilogy, much though we love it, has an abundance of paradoxes, plot holes and remaining questions. Can you resolve any of these…?
I have to declare from the off: I love the Back To The Future films. Utterly, utterly love them. That's what left me in two minds about writing this piece, as there's genuinely nothing I'd change about them. The scripts are tight, the films are exciting, the characters brilliant. What's not to like?
But there are little plot holes and questions. And it's in the spirit of appreciation of the films, rather than being a party pooper, that I present the unanswered questions of the Back To The Future trilogy (with any answers I can scramble together). Not one of these points dampens my enjoyment of the films in any way. But they sure did get me thinking...
George and Lorraine would recognise their son
For this one, I tip my hat to the terrific stand-up comedian Ed Byrne, who actually raised this point as part of one of his earlier tours.
The conundrum is this: you tend to remember the people who brought you together in life. You'd certainly remember the person who played Johnny B Goode in such dramatic fashion at the Enchantment Under The Sea dance. And, given that Lorraine had such a crush on Marty in 1955, she's unlikely to have forgotten him altogether.
So then, why, when Marty gets back to 1985, do George or Lorraine seem to have no recognition of his pivotal part in their lives? Wouldn't, when Marty gets to the age of 13 or 14, one of them think that something a bit odd was happening, in that they've managed to breed someone who looks exactly like the person who brought them together all those years ago?
Even appreciating that they didn't know 'Calvin Klein' for long, his impact upon them was such that they'd still have an idea what he looks like, many years later.
You can find Ed's DVD where he talks about this right here.
There Are Two Deloreans In 1885
I'd never even considered this until Den Of Geek reader 'HarrisonFord' (we assume he's the real one) raised it in our discussion of Back To The Future Part III last week. And it's this: there has to be two time machines in 1885.
Much of the third film is spent trying to find new ways to get the Delorean that Marty travelled back from 1955 in up to 88mph. But what about the time machine that Doc got sent in, when it was struck by lightning at the end of Back To The Future Part II? That's the one that he stores in a cave for 70 years (although it's still damaged, to be fair, as the Doc sends instructions forward in time). And given that it's established that we can have two Docs and two Martys at the same point in time, why can't we have two cars?
Now, there's some argument as to whether Doc has either drained the car of fluid, or left it with a full tank of fuel. Either way, there's surely something of use in the second car.
Of course, there are arguments why that car can't be touched. Firstly, there's the old paradox rule that would destroy the universe, although by the third film, the Doc is getting far more liberal with the laws of time. And secondly, if the alternative car was used, then Marty - are you following this? - wouldn't have been able to get back to 1885 in the first place. Because if it was fundamentally tampered with or used, that'd make it either redundant of non-existent in 1955. Which would, of course, create a paradox to bring down the universe, as you well know.
Couldn't the Doc make gasoline?
In 1885, the big problem Marty and the Doc face is that they can't get hold of gasoline. However, the Doc at this stage has the knowledge of how he made the time machine, and he's also managed to put together a nifty contraption to make an ice cube.
Couldn't he, in theory, track down where kerosene (which was available in 1885) was being refined, and make some gasoline from the by-product of that process?
The Doc Would Know He's Going To Die
Let's get ultra-nerdy, then. With a tip of the hat to Den Of Geek reader Nocturne, at the very point that the Doc and Marty uncover, in 1985, that 1885 Doc has been killed by Buford Tannen, that should have stopped Back To The Future Part III dead. After all, the sole reason Marty goes back to 1885 is to save the Doc.
So,why would it have killed the film? Well, at the start of Back To The Future Part III, we see the 1955 Doc, who is the younger version of the character. The Doc who got sent back to 1885 is the older one. Thus, at the point the younger Doc discovered the information, the older Doc, by logic, would instantly know it.
Hence, if he had any sense, the Doc would, at the very least, pay Buford Tannen the $80, and avoid getting shot. Granted, that'd make for a much shorter film, but surely it's the logical thing to do?
There are further ramifications, too. He would know about Clara before Marty showed him the cutting he took back to 1885. Yet,he's never heard of her when he sees her name for the first time. Surely he should?
It might, of course, all create another alternative timeline, which in turn would have further consequences. But would that affect the older Doc, as seen in 1885, anyway?
Could The Doc Leave A Longer Note?
Once the Doc discovered that the time machine Marty brought back to 1885 was damaged, couldn't he have changed the note that he left with Western Union to simply request that Marty brought a bit of fuel and a few parts with him?
Because even accepting that the Doc didn't want Marty to come back to 1885, by the time he's there, then - and granted, we're at risk of another paradox here - couldn't he just have left a message somewhere to be discovered in 1955 that could have fixed things in a jiffy?
There is precedent for this. Marty writes Doc a letter in the first Back To The Future film, which ultimately saves his life when he's gunned down by the Libyans. Thus, it's a strategy that would also, surely, work if a letter was sent from 1885?
Would Marty and Jennifer exist in 2015?
At the point that Marty and Jennifer step into the Delorean at the end of the first film and head off to 2015 to do something about their kids, how can there still be kids there to find? Because, as far as the strict laws of the timelines go, if Marty and Jennifer disappear, even temporarily from 1985, then events in the future would change until they return. As such, the future Marty and Jennifer shouldn't be there, and nor should their Michael J Fox-alike offspring.
The counter-argument is that it's assumed they'll come back to 1985 with everything sorted, and thus if events take their course, all would be the same. After all, pictures from photographs in the movie take time to disappear. And Marty's hand only starts to disappear in the first film when events are going very badly wrong.
However, think back to the first film. Einstein gets sent one minute into the future. For that minute? He doesn't exist in 1985, until he returns. Thus, the rule is established there, and if it's followed, then the McFly brood would not exist in 2015.
Does your head hurt yet?
Why does Jennifer look shocked when she meets herself in 2015?
Again, it's picky, but there's a point in Back To The Future Part II when older Jennifer meets younger Jennifer. Yet, surely older Jennifer would know that younger Jennifer was in the house? And surely, therefore, she would be expecting her to be?
Take the argument further, and older Marty would know what was coming, too.
How Could The Doc Have Invented The Time Machine?
In Back To The Future Part II, when Marty and Doc have travelled back to the alternative 1985, we learn that the Doc has been committed several years before.
However, that presents a problem. If the Doc is committed before he gets a chance to invent the time machine, then surely it isn't just people in pictures that should be disappearing. At the point in 2015, when old Biff takes the Delorean and gives the Almanac to young Biff, then surely the time machine should cease to exist, leaving - at best - Marty and Doc stranded in 2015?
The get-out clause here is that it takes time for changes to feed along the time lines. But even so...
The Bear
At the start of Back To The Future Part III, there's no sign of a bear in a cave when Marty parks the time machine in it. There doesn't even appear to be sufficient depth to said opening to hold a bear. And yet, one appears. It's like a magic bear. Just saying.
Why Steal The Almanac Back In 1955?
The tight time constraints that Marty and the Doc put themselves under sometimes do make mockery of the fact that they have a time machine at their disposal. Why, then, do they try and get the almanac at the point where it's given to Biff? Given that he doesn't place any bets, nor presumably appreciate its value for several years afterwards, why not go back in 1956 or 1957, perhaps when he's at school/work/shouting at people in the street, and take it then?
There is a solid counter-argument here. The point in 1955 they go back to is the only one where the Doc and Marty know exactly where the book will be, namely, at the point old Biff gives it to new Biff.
Also, Biff is specifically told to put it in a safe somewhere, and assuming - let's give him the benefit of the doubt here - that he does so, that's going to make it tricky to get. Although for the Doc, you'd suspect, not impossible...
Just Call Marty "Chicken" At Key Moments
So potent is the narrative device of getting Marty McFly to do illogical things, merely because someone called him chicken, and so aware are the characters around him of it, that surely just a line or two in the right place would keep him out of trouble? After all, Marty is shown to even commit a crime when someone says chicken, so less ambitious challenges must also be surmountable.
Thus, why doesn't Seamus McFly offer Marty the chance to do a bit of hunting with him, instead of agreeing to a shoot-out with Buford Tannen? Because Marty said no? Ah, how about calling him "yellow"? That should do the trick, or at the very least create some kind of chicken paradox in Marty's head.
Heck, why doesn't Lorraine call him chicken for not cracking on with his music career? Or call him a chicken for not being a chicken?
My head hurts.
If you want to have a stab at answering any of those above in the comments, or have fresh questions, then add them to the comments.
And again, all of this is very much in the spirit of loving the films, rather than switching to pedantic killjoy mode!
The Back To The Future trilogy arrives on Blu-ray today.
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You didn't mention that in 1955 there are 4 DeLorians. Marty from the first movie has one, Doc and Marty from the second movie have one, Future Biff has one, and there is one that is in the cave hidden by Doc Brown in the third movie.
The ravine was named "Clayton Ravine" because Clara Clayton went over the edge and died... because no one was there to pick her up. Since Doc went back in time and changed history, he was there to pick her up and prevent Clara from going over the edge. Marty's involvement did change Doc's ability to pick her up, but she was still saved before going over the edge by Doc and Marty.
The time machine that got struck by lightning was the "upgraded flying Mr. Fusion model" not the original model from BttF1, the fusion model doesn't "need roads" or speed in order to travel. :)
The Lorraine of the original 1985 was a drunk though. It's possible she didn't realize or better yet, didn't care.
The time machine has nothing to do with the hovel board at all.
He made it in 1885 the same way he made the time traveling delorean in 1955.
However, in 1885 technology isn't as advanced yet, but, considering he's a "blacksmith" and scientist in 1885, he could probably create the parts needed by himself. He did take several years to create it though (enough time to get children!)
The Flux Capacitor is activated at 88mph for a reason, it opens a wormhole through time, but it only stays open for a second before closing again, so the car has to be going fast enough to to through it. Any faster and it would miss the wormhole, any slower and it would close on the Delorean cutting it in two like a cigar cutter
I don't think so. He's the 'original' Doc of 1985 at the point he died, so his death wouldn't impact on any events of Parts I or II because he's already done those things. It's interesting about Future Biff though and his disappearance when he gets back to 2015...
By that scene it seems that Zemeckis/Gale wanted to say that if you altered something significant in your past, you change your own timeline (which apparently hurts!) and you disappear, or get transported to where you're now supposed to be (eg. the Biff Casino), where presumably you'd have a fresh set of memories to go with your new past and be none the wiser. But why wouldn't that happen to Doc/Marty each time something changed? Arguably Marty should've disappeared in Part I when George punches Biff in the school parking lot because we assume that's the point when George's path changes and he becomes successful, meaning Marty has more money growing up, maybe having gone to a different school and ultimately not meeting Doc.
Or maybe, whatever path they get put on, Doc and Marty are 'meant' to find each other and always will do in every parallel universe...but that's a whole new debate!!
The reason I googled back to the future 3 is because of these exact questions? If doc died in 1885 how is he alive in part 3 1955? I guess they had to come up w something but 1885 when he was killed should have voided him completely even back to part 1 based on the story line of changing future? Am I missing something?
The events in 1885 doesn't stop Doc being born whenever he is born. Emmett Brown will be born and his birth has nothing to do with the events in 1885. Eventually that child will grow up into the Doc we see in 1955.
Old Biff didn't vanish, he returned to the future and died because his younger self was killed by Lorraine at some point between Alt-1985 and this Alt-2015.
I have a solution to the 2015 ones (about Marty and Jennifer) but its speculation. All you have to happen is that Marty and Jennifer go to 2015 with Doc at the end of BTTF 1 and as mentioned they get there and discover the whole family have been erased from existence. Events pan out differently and the trio realise the Doc's mistake. The different events mean Old Biff never finds the Almanac and time machine and doesn't go back in time. After a while the trio head back to 1985 using the machine (to the point just after they left) and they get on with their lives. Marty has the race with his friend and injures himself. Jennifer and Marty eventually get married in the years following.
They have now created a timeline where the return of the DeLorean from the future is part of the 1985 events. Don't want to be technical but there are two groups of "DeLorean, Doc, Jennifer and Marty" in existence - one who disappeared from time in 1985 heading off to 2015 and another group who appeared in 1985 after the first group left. The second movie takes place in this alternate timeline and the group who return to 1985 and live normally through to the 2015 we see in the film have memories of their trip to 2015 where nothing happened. They aren't expecting to see their younger selves in the house because in their trip these events never happened!
My admitted flaw with my theory is that old Jennifer and Marty would realise there is a younger version of themselves travelling around 2015 (believing them to do the exact same things they did) and would be conscious of this possibility which would effect their lives. Of course on the other hand after 30 years they probably no longer really care.
Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but isn't the most notorious anomaly in the trilogy the "Other Marty" paradox from the otherwise tightly plotted first movie? When history is altered in 1955, a new timeline is created in which Marty is born to a more confident father and happier mother. In this new 1985, Marty has a cool, successful Dad, a svelte Mum and an awesome new car.
So, when the original Marty arrives in 1985, fresh from 1955, and goes home, what has happened to his alternative self from this new timeline? Does he just fade away, to be replaced by Marty Prime? Or is he out there, somewhere, trying to get his life back? In fact, logically, it should have been alt-Marty who was sent back in time in the DeLorean in this new timeline. Perhaps he got stuck in 1955...
Actually after Biff returned, Marty and Doc used the time machine to go back to 1985A from 2015 so when they get to 1985A and need to figure out where Biff went, the time circuits would read 2015 because that was the last place it came from.
That's like asking " how couldn't the professor fix the hole in the s.s. minow?" Takes away the fun of the story
When doc is saved, he is alive, so marty has no reason to go back to 1885. But if he doesnt go back to 1885, then doc does get killed, so marty will have to go back to 1885, so this could have caused a paradox.
Couldnt doc have checked the last departed BEFORE goint to 1985 to make sure it hasnt changed? If it did, he could just remember what it said before: Nov 12 1955
Well I found this cause I thought of the two time machine paradox. But now I think of it couldn't he have used that to create the time traveling train because that's never explained. The doc could've used parts to build the train then traveled to the future to rebuild the car so Marty can find it and keep that particular train of events intact. I think Clara inspired him to reach higher so the reason they didn't think of using fuel from the other car is his lack of motivation or him draining the fuids
What has held the plot holes together for years in my mind is the idea of Destiny working in the background to make everything happen and give Marty a better life for some unknown reason. Successful family. Nice truck. Saving him from the bad accident by teaching him to overcome his hatred of being called a chicken. As such, Destiny controls or overrides paradoxes as needed to accomplish her ends. Destiny is the faceless, nameless star of the trilogy. Well, except for when George gets her name wrong in the first movie...
According to my understanding of the movie there are an infinite points in time past and future. when something takes place for example in the first movie sending einstein 1 minute into the future, the einstine which appears again will be one which was sent by a doc who is 1 minute from the past. And this is a continues process for an infinite amount of time. For me this solves all the paradoxes
They did not know anything was wrong untill they returned to 85. at that point the last place visitied would be 2015.
I agree with all these Paradoxes, but heres one i dont get. At the end of BTTF 3 after Tannen* is arrested for robbing the coach, and the tombstone fades, why the rush? It was a risk to begin with not knowing if the train can get to 88mph, so now with unlimited time why not just invent some gas and be safe. Also, If Marty is 17 and (lets say 200 days) old, isnt he now at the end of BBTF 3 17 and some 210+ days old? So his true age would never be the same again?
My only plot hole in the whole movie is at the moment 2015 Biff gave 1955 Biff the Almanac, the future changed. So, Biff could never have gone back to the 2015 that Marty and Doc were in, he would have gone to the alternate 2015. Same reason given that Doc and Marty had to go back. Everything else seems to work fine looking at the time lines of Marty and Doc, but that one time travel from 1955 back to the 2015 Marty and Doc were in and not 2015a always bothered me. Still, the best trilogy every
BJabo21 , i saw a similar hole at first. the 2015 old biff returns to should have changed. but maybe at the time he returns, the timelines have only changed as far as 1985 or just beyond, and not yet to 2015. what confuses me though is the marty from 1985 (our marty), which goes to 2015 and then returns back to find the "biff 1985" in BTTF II should be affected by the alternative timeline and have lived with biff as his step-dad. similarly as mentioned in the article, the doc would have been committed and the time machine not invented - creating a major paradox etc, etc. alternatively, there would be 2 1985 marty's and docs in "biff 1985"???! ...head hurting now! ....agreed though, BEST trilogy ever. will always LOVE it!
On the docs head stone it says he was in love with Clara, but Clara was supposed to fall down the ravine on the day she arrived so she would never have met him
Small interesting thing I caught today in part III when Marty returns to 1985 from 1885 on the tracks, what is the name of the ravine "Eastwood ravine"
To the point about the Almanac. The script called for going to the 1960s and the hippie era, but it was too expensive to make yet another Hill Valley set. So, they went back to the 1955 as the set was already there.
Ive read the article and read alot of the comments . So, for the fact of , why did Doc not just avoid the terrorists altogether and get plutonium somewhere else,knowing that they will come to kill him? because then Marty might have never had to hop in the car , and be transported to 1955...thus screwing up everything that happened. He wanted to not get killed, so wearing a bullet proof vest was the easiest way to prevent this without scrwing anyting up. As far as alternate universives, multiple timelines, etc. its pretty apparent that the way they set up time travel in the movies that it will change the future and past but does not change them or their knowledge or thoughts. They come back and see that things have changed, but it does not affect their minds. so basically it changes everything they know, and to them its different , but it is an alternate universe. That explains why doc in 1885 doesnt know that he will be killed after Marty and 55 doc find out he gets shot in 1885.
just a point on the backto the future part 2 them not being there bit, u used einstein being sent forward as proof but he was only sent forward,never sent back where as marty and jennifer do come back,that explains why there life continued as normal
If you watch the deleted scenes, you see Old Biff come back and gradually die and fade away as the effect of the change finally catches up with him. Wibbly wobbly timey wimey
But remember that Doc and Marty where both the centre of these changes and the initiators of these changes, so were most likely protected due to the "Eye of the Storm" effect
that the whole point of a paradox you thick funk!although the fact old Biff got back upsets me. and the whole paradox wouldn't have worked if Doc and Marty didn't go to 2015 in the first place!
hahahah good point lol.
you need to see the newest epic rap battle!
Once Doc goes back to 1885 and is killed, everything is over! He never exists to even build the time machine in 1985! You can't go back and save him! The space time continuum is permanently altered with that one event. Drives me crazy because I love the trilogy. Once he's killed in 1885, how is 1955 Doc looking at his own tombstone?? Makes me insane how this part of the story line is overlooked? Oh well. Still love the movies.
There are many many plot holes in the trilogy (which is my favorite set of films of all time so this isn't to bash it. But after seeing the movies so much you start to think of these things. The list includes: How does Biff know how to work the time machine, refuel it, enter the new coordinates to return to and then return it exactly back to where he left it before he fades away? A bit far fetched to say the least even if he had all the time to do so its still Biff we are talking about. And an older more senile version of a him. Why is Jennifer taken out of the car in the future? Is there a reason for this? It makes no sense to just leave her in an alley while Doc goes to pick up his dog. Wouldn't she be safer having stayed put in the car? They never really explain the logic about just dumping Jennifer to the side as if she was a pile of garbage. Wouldn't the events have been greatly altered after young Doc in 1955 sees and helps Marty not once but now TWICE!? Two times now Doc helps him and sees exactly how the car looks, works , operates. He knows that he will be shot now in both 1985 and 1885 and we are expected to believe that knowing all of this of an invention he is going to burn up his house to make is going to go exactly the same path with all of this future knowledge? The age difference between Doc and Clara is also glaring. Do you realize that Doc is in his late 60s and Clara in her mid 30s? And they have two kids and built another time machine together? Do you realize how old Doc is by the time we see him at the end of BTTF III? And this is the man that she falls in love with? Really. I know he saved your life but he is 30 years your senior. They revitalized the whole clock tower into a mall by 2015 yet they still didn't fix the clock? So they spent millions of dollars to build a mall but decided that fixing the clock wasn't important enough to do and still have people raising money to do it at that time? Its amazing how every vital event seems to happen on the given day. Marty's accident with the Rolls Royce happens the day he returns from 1885. Jennifer on top of that realizes that the whole thing was real that she really was in the future yet no consequences happen due to it and she and Marty both don't seem to realize that they will be visiting one another in the future on top of that. Sorry the trilogy is great but the plot holes are so thick its like swiss cheese and then some. Great Scott.
It was explained that the other Marty was on holiday, Biff said it !
What are you talking about ?? The Doc who died in 1885 is 20 years older than the one in 1955 ! Him dying in 1885 wouldn't erase his younger self.Your point has no sense...
It's not difficult to figure out how the time machine works, even for Biff. You type in the date, then drive 88mph. Pretty straight forward.
Most of the "plot holes" listed are easily explained. It takes time for the ripple effect to catch up. The time traveller's memory would be the last to change, if at all.
The clock was not repaired because that was not the point of the flyer that the lady gave to Marty. She was from the The Hill Valley Preservation Society, which existed to keep the clock the way it was to preserve history. This debate still existed in 2015.
In the whole trilogy, there are really only a few plot holes that are of any significance:
In the 1st movie, when Marty was playing Earth Angel on stage, he should not have come close to disappearing. In fact, the picture and his family should have been restored at that point, since no further actions by Marty assisted or prevented THE kiss.
During the 2nd trip to 1955, Marty runs to the clock tower to meet Doc after the first time machine leaves. Doc passes out, and Marty takes him home. It's highly unlikely that Marty (who is established as having trouble thinking 4th dimensionally) would remember to pick up the pieces of the first letter. This would create a very horrible paradox.
For the first time, Doc is in the past while Marty is ahead of him in time. Any changes that Doc made after going back to 1885, but before Marty went back to save him, would not be noticed by Marty. This is a problem, since Doc did prevent Clara from falling into the ravine. Marty should not have memory of the name "Clayton Ravine", nor the story of the teacher falling over as taught in school.
SO i have one i don't believe was mentioned. It's right at beginning of the first movie. Doc remotely drives the delorean able to get it up to 88mph with einstein in it. In order to remotely drive the car it would have to shift itself which would make it automatic. Yet in the next scene marty drives off into 1955 having to shift the car when driving it making it a manual transmission. This therefore rules out possibility to remotely control it as seen before.
The Doc in 1885 is the older Doc. Whether he is killed or not has no effect on his younger self in 1955 or 1985.
True, there should not have been a rush.
And yes, Marty is slightly older now, but more like 2½ weeks, not 200 days.
(1 week in 1955, a few hours in 2015, a few hours in 1985A, a few more days in 55, then 5 days in 1885)
Maggie is not related to Lorraine.
That's a contradiction, since they needed to go 88 in 1885.
You have to remember its the old Doc who goes to 1885 and he never belonged there he is merely an extra in the events there. Hence if he dies it would not have killed the doc from 1955 since the 1955 doc was not even born then, he still would have been born and events would have still happened. However old doc would not have a future if marty hadn't gone back. That would have been the end of old doc.
You're an idiot.
Everyone is distant incest.
Regarding Doc not inventing the time machine because he's committed, I would imagine it's for the same reasons Marty remembers anything, and the same reason used in most time travel fiction: People out of time aren't affected. Thus because Doc Brown was coming back from the future, he was unaffected by the divergent timelines.
Also, regarding Jennifer being shocked to see her younger self: She doesn't know it was going to happen. She was knocked out by that incident and when they returned to 1985 Marty and the Doc make her think it was a dream.
When Marty goes back to 1985, he can see his alternative self (born to a more confident father as you said) looking at doc being shot, getting in the delorian and going to 1955. Than "original" Marty takes his place. That's all.
There are a lot of plot holes in the trilogy related to alternative timelines...
In the second movie, Doc draws the theory of alternative timelines on a blackboard. He explains that your actions change the actual timeline that you are, and you can't go back to the original future where you came from. If this is true, than old Biff couldn't return to the same 2015 from where he steals the Delorian and the Doc's letter couldn't be delivered to the same 1955's Marty who just saw Doc being struck by a lightning...
What about when Marty first goes back to 1955 and meets Doc. He says something about who is going to take care of Einstein now that the Doc is dead in 1985 after presumably being shot and killed by the terrorists. Doc clearly interprets that as being who is going to take care of Albert Einstein as Marty replies that "Einstein is your dog, Doc". Einstein died on 18 April 1955, seven months before. Surely Doc would have been aware he wasn't talking about the famous physicist?
McFly guys like the same kind of girl!
older biff went back to 2015 when younger biff didn't bet on an thing yet for example he bet at 3.00pm older biff goes to 2015 and the time is 2.30pm the time line change at 3.00pm
older biff went back to 2015 when younger biff didn't bet on an thing yet for example he bet at 3.00pm older biff goes to 2015 and the time is 2.30pm the time line change at 3.00pm
clever guy
Yup if Doc was killed in 1885 he would have die of old later, that would never affect Doc from 1955 at all, he had no idea of time travel at the time and he even say his family never live in the area in 1885 so Marty went back to make sure he could live a little longer since he died right after he send the letter to him.
Well Doc was hired to create a bomb without knowing, so if he refuse making the bomb they would just get somebody else so instead cleverly he made them empty bombs and took the plutonium (?) away from them and gave it another use, but they found out, perhaps trying to blow something, but didn't work so there actually Doc prevented a terrorist attack.
No! That is the name of the cliff not the school, he mention how kids in their school wished their teacher had fell in the cliff as well. Is not the school name.
Absolutely, what tv games have taught me is not because and enemy kills you once is not going to kill you again and again, or even on silly events.
I agreed mostly but he remembered the ravine name because he still had the choice to save her or not, that haven't happen yet when he went back.
In the other hand it makes more sense to me now that it was Marty the one picking up the note made into pieces since Doc looked really upset as to do it himself right after Marty went back to 1985, so perhaps Marty again hid the note for Doc (OR made another one that Doc again destroyed and fixed) or simply took the note more seriously after learning that he was going to end up dying in 1885.
Edit: You are right if Marty never when back Doc would still save Clara, but Marty came from another timeline back when nobody had before travel on time, the only constant in the movies is Marty so perhaps Old Marty in BTTF II had no memory of the Clayton Ravine name.
Right ol' Doc always wanted to make his foot print on time minimal, nevertheless the only constant in all movies is 1985 Marty himself only, every single time he meets Doc he is a different guy from a different timeline. That why Marty still remembers a lot of details on thing the never end up happening and specially goes back to 1985 where a lot of new things happened that he can't remember, we see the movie with his eyes so stuff make sense and stuff.
Right ol' Doc always wanted to make his foot print on time minimal, nevertheless the only constant in all movies is 1985 Marty himself only, every single time he meets Doc, Doc is a different guy from a different timeline. Thats why Marty still remembers a lot of details on things the never end up happening and specially goes back to 1985 where a lot of new things happened that he can't remember, we see the movie with his eyes so seems to stuff make sense and other stuff don't. One of the reason he went for Clara was leaving her would also change the future since she was suppose to die, so it was either kill her or take her with him. You are not thinking on the 4th dimension!!
Also leaving Jennifer on the car would endanger everything, if she freak out waking up in the future, perhaps traveling on time, leaving them stranded or destroying the machine by accident.
doesn't matter at what time he did bet cos either way by 2015 everything was done so I guess that is a mistake in the movie my friend
This could be the stupidest comment ever made on Back to the Future. You obviously don't understand the first thing about the movies. It's the OLD Doc who goes back to 1885, who cares if he dies? Young Doc will still be born and be alive in 1955. What, did you think he aged from 1885 to 1955? He would have been over 100 when Marty met him in 1955 and 130 in 1985. You are truly dumb.
I do think Doc tried to explore other ways of getting the plutonium, but the Libyans remained his only option. Hence, the bullet-proof plate.
You are dumb.
Also in BTTF 3, when Doc saves Clara from falling off the edge, he wouldnt have been there if it wasnt for marty coming back so he wouldnt have saved her and she would have been dead, yet we are told he falls in love with her?
The only thing that get me is if sheamus and maggie mcfly are desendants of martys mother then they wouldn't be called mcfly as presumably she only became a mcfly when she married martys father. I think martys father should have played maggie mcfly. That would have worked gr8!
The doc was asked to meet the new teacher off the train thats how they originaly met.
The delorean that marty travelled to 1955 in got hit by lightning and sent to 1885.thats why he goes running round the corner to the other doc who has just sent the other car back to 1985. Its not rocket science.
My point exactly! For me this is the major mistake of the film. Maggie should have been played by george mcfly. Or at very least one of the mcfly siblings.
I have another one! Assuming old Biff from 2015 goes back to 1955 and gives the book to himself, he wouldnt be able to give the Delorean back to Marty and the Doc cause he would have automatically have gone to an alternate 2015 where he is rich and powerful.
If you drop a pebble into the middle of a stream of water, it takes a certain period of time for the resulting ripple to reach the end of the stream. It's the same principle as that, in that the ripple in time caused by Biff taking the almanac back wouldn't have reached 2015 by the time Biff returned.
You see the effect of it on Biff in the deleted scenes when Biff falls to the ground and begins to fade out of existence as Marty did in number 1.
But that's suggesting that once Marty and Jennifer go to the future they never return to 1985.
Once they've been to the future they clearly return, having fixed the problem or not.
I believe the picture would change. Imagine the original time stream you came from as a series of lines all running parallel, and each pertaining to a different person, object etc.
When you travel back 5 years, your line hasn't stopped, or been erased to the equivalent of 5 years, it's simply looped back around so that the PRESENT point of your timeline (to your perspective) is 5 years in the past. The same is true for the picture.
However, because you've modified the tree in the picture at the point of intersection in the timeline, the change continues down the lines until the point you take the photo, whence the tree has been cut down and the photo changed.
Since the photo is in your pocket as your timeline loops back 5 years, it's does too and it changes
The only thing I can think of is that at the point in time of Marty and Doc's personal perspectives, they haven't actually witnessed whether or not the name of the ravine has changed or not. For all we know, after the Doc picked Clara up the ravine stayed as Shonash Ravine, but since Marty or Doc didn't have a chance to look at the name of it on a map or anything they presume that it's still called Clayton Ravine.
There are a lot of plot holes yes but you also mentioned the 'alternate timelines' So if that is possible then in the 2nd on with older Jennifer to knowing younger her is there is explained by the fact that they change that timeline. They sort their kids out so surely that creates the alternate line and young jennifer therefore grows up differently and in a different timeline...so of course the 1st old jennifer wouldn't know young her is there because she will disappear soon...I think I just got myself a bit muddled but I hope you get what I am saying.
Which leads me on to the fact that, yes Doc could of written another note in the 3rd film to get Marty to bring new parts BUT that would create an alternate timeline and therefore wouldn't help them at all, I know this isn't entirely true in the other films but it's the only realistic (as real as time travel) explanation I can think of.
you missed the most obvious pardox, when grandad biff from 2015 travels to 1955 with the almanac, for some reason, he can travel to the 2015 where marty and doc are, but it should be the 2015 that biff is a millionaire, and has been for 60 years...
Take a closer look at BTTF1. Yes, Doc indeed destroys the letter, but PUTS THE SHREDS OF PAPER IN HIS POCKET. It's very sutil but still, you can clearly see he does.
Well... that make some sense... But when Doc draws those two different timelines on the blackboard, for me it doesn't make sense on how the heck they could return to the past of a different timeline...
1955-----------------------------(C)1985(poor Biff)----------------(A)2015
.........\
...........\
.............\--------------------------(B)1985(rich Biff)
They were in A and went back to B, but for the logic, they should have returned to C
I think the "ripple effect" doesn't fit in "different timelines" concept. Maybe they created that Doc's explanation scene to make it easy for people to understand but it ended up messing everything.
This IS taken care of. In the deleted scenes on the DVD old Biff disappear after a while.