Finally Russell T. remembers how to write real drama, he teased us in the last series of Dr Who with "Midnight" and "Turn Left" but this was stunning. Everybody also at the top of their game with special mention to both John Barrowman and Peter Capaldi. We've lost some good series already this year (and some dross ones), but surely Series 4 has to be on the way after this.

Thoroughly enjoyable mini series although typical RTD, non-sensical solution to the problem solved in 5 minutes as soon as someone bothers to try. I do hope this doesn't mean now that Torchwood is now relegated to once a year over a 5 day period.

I thought it was shoddy and procedural. Up to ep3 we had a good story. Then they kill off one main character for little reason (after Jack uses the battle plan of "shout at them a bit"). Then tonight they did what they could have done at the start..... Procedural and poor.

I enjoyed it, good fun. Well, 'fun', you know what I mean... It's funny that Torchwood series 4 may be coming because Day Five here was as definitive a possible ending for the whole shebang as you could write really.

This mini-series was must-watch tv. It is good to be reminded how dramatic, thoughtful and inventive science fiction can transcend its genre.I thought the acting was superlative, and the moral question marks were presented in a refreshingly post-watershed fashion. I felt genuine fear and horror, and I am a rather blase, seasoned horro/sci-fi fan. This epic slice of summer brilliance is a fitting farewell for Russell T Davies as it shows just what he can do - yet again. Congratulations! And Captain Jack...you are always welcome around mine!

For me, the show that this mini-series most resembled was Doctor Who. 1970s, Troughton, Pertwee, early Tom Baker Doctor Who that is... It seems ironic that in order to make old school Who, RTD had to leave the show.

Extremely disappointed. Ianto dies because the battle plan is to "just say no", (which coming so soon after the deaths of Tosh and Owen just smacks of melodrama). Jack kills a grandson we never really buy into - is she his daughter by blood, adoption? Did he raise her or just swing by every so often..It could have been any child and the impact would have been the same. It is a repeat of an earlier plot - one child sacrificed to save the world, last time it was fairies, this time aliens.. There is some suggestion that the use of the words "Uncle Jack" should be chilling when it comes across as heavy handed by the writers. Unsurprisingly Jack defeats the aliens at the last moment practically singlehandedly. Gwen and co should all have been dead based on the orders that went through and were not countermanded -lethal force against people preventing the taking of the children.. And the human bad guys get to be heros? (the MP who suggests how to choose the children is the one who gets on her moral high horse with the PM?) Torchwood as an organisation is incompetent all the way through except for a few moments. Lois's faith in them is completely misplaced. This show took characters we had come to like or love, a concept we had taken to our hearts and systematically shredded them all. I will neither be buying the DVD nor watching any further Torchwood shows.

I was torn with tonights episode in the sense that i really dont know how to feel! Its was an AMAZING piece of television to behold and i think Torchwood, if not now, is definatly on its way to being so much better than Doctor Who. The scene where Frobisher kills his family and himself was executed brilliantly!! i litterally jumped out of my seat. The sound of the gunshots firing was bone chilling! The part in which im not sure how to feel is how the episode ended! Jack being teleported into space may explain his beginning of becomming the face of boe (because in doctor who they always bumped into him on different planets). If there is a 4th season it might see Jack setting up with a new team in space! Another thing im wondering about is Jack's daughter and grandson! in the 4th episode of "children of earth" that army woman mentioned that it could be possible that Jack's daughter and grandson could have the Lazerus effect aswell. So maybe Jack's grandson came back to life. Im probably wrong but it was just a thought! Everywhere i have been reading, there are comments from people saying that just because Ianto is dead, they refuse to watch Torchwood anymore which i think is stupid. When Billie Piper left Doctor Who im sure people were the exact same but, come on people, its sci-fi! Billie came back to doctor who so whats stopping Ianto from coming back! The finale of Children of Earth was by far, for me, the most compelling piece of drama this year! I really hope there will be a 4th season because i cant wait to tune back in!

yes i love dovtor who - but come on torchwood is sci fi for grown ups and theres so little about. doctor who should bow to torchwood. but why oh why did we only get 5 hours,this is a travesty of the highest order. and why is there talk of not making anymore,every time tv execs (both sides of the atlantic) get a succesful challenging and thought provoking show do they then proceed to axe it. while the horrible reality tv for chavs goes on and on. and lets all hope john barrowman doesnt leave - that would be the last interesting character gone they've kiled off all the interesting ones and left us with the boring and irritating ones. how will they replace him? i dont know but i hope they do a bettr job than with the doctors replacement - ugh horrible idea

As a devoted fan of Torchwood from the beginning I was a bit heart-sick to see Tosh and Owen get topped, but I thought they were both good deaths as those things go. Ianto's was a huge disappointment because I thought it was a bit pointless. What on earth did Jack THINK was going to happen when they stood up and said "no" to the aliens? If he had stuck to his guns after they killed Ianto, his death could have had some meaning. Instead it was more like: "We want 10% of your children." "No! That's monstrous! Mankind will not allow it!" (Aliens kill Ianto) "Oh. Well, if you put it that way then never mind. 10% of humanity's kids coming right up." HOWEVER, that being said, I'm not going to stop watching the show because of it.

Yeah, that was it for me if Ianto is officially out. His character provided an identifiable perspective on the show, and his and Jack's relationship was refreshing for a sci fi show. I agree with many who posted here that the death was also pointless, and more likely just to eliminate the gay aspect of the show for more acceptance from mainstream audiences... I am one seriously disappointed fan.

Slow, plodding, horrifying. Ridiculous to watch 5 hours of TV, to see the defeat of the 456 happen in a matter of minutes. Watching a child being tortured was a particular low-point. No intelligence to this, no working out, no thinking. Just a lot of torchwood people sitting around looking depressed. I won't bother with this emotional manipulation again.

I disagree that Ianto's death was pointless. As I see it, it served two purposes. One, when the stakes are raised this high you can't expect everyone to make it out alive. There is always loss and just because you are one of the good guys doesn't make you invulnerable. Secondly, it pushed Jack over the edge by making it very clear that the people he loves are always in more danger when they are around him. He can't die, but they can, and by his actions at the end of the episode you see that he just can't take that emotional burden any longer. Loss is a continual theme in Doctor Who and now had become a main theme in Torchwood as well. The Doctor and Jack are very similar because of their near immortality, and now like the Doctor, Jack is dealing with loss by traveling and escaping the situation. Though the ratings for this five-night special have been outstanding, and series four may soon go into production, I am not sure that it should. This finale wrapped-up everything beautifully, as tragic and depressing as the story may have been, it was a conclusion. Gwen and Rhys have a child on the way, and Jack has left Earth a broken man. If either of them come back and just pick-up with business as usual, it will cheapen the impact of the story told over these past five days. If Torchwood does come back it seems like the entire cast would have to change, and then it just wouldn't be Torchwood. To everyone who has been critical of the plan to just stand-up to the 456, and how that planned failed dramatically resulting in Ianto's death as well as several other causalities, this is how I see it. The primary obstacle at that time wasn't the 456, it was the government. Once Torchwood finally got into Thames House, they were ultimately unprepared. Had the government not tried to prevent Torchwood from doing their job, actions to stop the 456 would have happened sooner. This wasn't just a story about defending the planet from an alien threat; it was a very human story about what people will do when they are pushed to the absolute edge. It was chilling, emotional, at times cruel and selfish, but that is what the human race can be at times. It wasn't all roses, rainbows, and happy endings - and I don't think this show would be as successful or would have made as much of an impact if things concluded that way. I have loved Torchwood from the start, and was hoping for a series four before this special aired, though I now I feel it would be best if the show ended with Children of Earth, as the finale to this mini-series felt like a perfect way to end the show.

I think some of you should get out of your anoraks. Lets put Torchwood in perspective. Yes it was good drama yes but not fantastic. Some of the last ep was unbelievable even in sci fi terms. Twitter was ablaze with talk of people being in tears most of the way through. I cry at tv and film at the drop of a hat, heck I even cried when Peggy got her Yellow Coat in Hi-Di-Hi! But ep 5 did not move me at all. Most of the acting was good, some of the plot was flawed, RTD hedged his bets, it's finished or it might not be. Where was the Doctor? How did Jack sort out out solution so quickly? Good ratings, good Mon - Fri entertainment, but not the best thing since sliced bread as some are suggesting. A new series on the way? Almost certainly. Some of the main characters dead but in the next series who knows? Si fi with possible time travel means that anything can happen. Watch this space!

Couldn't quite shake the impression I had been emotionally mugged by the end of the show and it did appear that "that's all she wrote" for the Torchwood boys and girls. I agree the ending seems a bit quick, reminded me of "and with one bound they were free" ending of the last series of DW. I think I could have done with something just a little more upbeat for at least some of the show!

My initial reaction to the ending of last night's finale was disgust and dismay. In five seconds flat Jack Harkness crossed the boundary from 'goody' to 'baddy', choosing expediency over integrity. His fine words of 'philosophy' to the 456 are themselves a potent condemnation of his actions. Ianto's (almost) last words were "You will not get a single solitary child." Jack betrayed him. Yet, on reflection, I can see that this was all in keeping with Jack's character. The earliest thing we know about him is that, in fleeing for his own life, he lost his grip, without even noticing, on his young brother, leaving him to die. Jack is an action hero, not a moral one and he isn't even a very good leader - Torchwood usually manage to bungle things. He's also a bighead - no wonder he ended up as the Face of Boe!I have been a fan of new Dr Who from the outset, not least because the Dr is non-violent, wise and clever and have been consistently disappointed (until the first four episodes of this week) with Torchwood because the main protagonists are none of these things. But perhaps I was missing the point. If Torchwood comes back it would be best to start afresh with a new team (perhaps headed by the 'very strange man' who apparently runs Torchwood 2, assisted by Lois Habiba)while Jack begins his journey to redemption, which, thanks to the wibbly wobbly timey wimey nature of life in the Whoniverse, we've already seen. One last thought. What kind of society are we that we will sit and watch a simulation of a child being tortured to death for entertainment? How many people watching never turned a hair?

Looks like Davies and the BBC did not count on all the 'stay 16 all life' folks, the ones complaining about a thoughtful, intelligent and adult SF/horror drama. There's so much in Children of Earth to make one think, to investigate and evaluate ones own make-up - and those not liking CoE come up with petty, self-centred whinging about how their favourite character dies. Pathetic. Well done SF/horror has always been, and will always be, about our own reaction to the world. Aliens and other monsters are just a plot device to get the threat going. The alien in CoE wasn't particularly threatening, it turned out to be just another life form dependent, unfortunately, on humans. Not even for necessary means but just for fun. The real threat was the way the humans, particularly the politicians, civil servants and soldiers reacted to fear itself. The politicians didn't act, they were unable to come up with any backbone, to the point were the UK became essential occupied by one US soldier. Nice touch. The civil servants and soldiers on the streets 'just following their orders', not even realising that the UK once fought against exactly the same kind of herding up people 'for the good of the state'. Only at the very end some of them realised that there are orders that are so wrong one cannot go with them. Still the most despicable politicians win the day; the one coming up with the distinction between good and bad children takes over. BTW, the difference between Jack's sacrifice of his grandson and the politicians, who wanted to lead 10% of the CoE to the slaughter? He put himself on the line, he took the loss of his grandson, his daughter and anything dear to him. He became a truly tragic figure, in that regardless of his choices other people get hurt. Which in turn hurts him, over and over, and over again till the end of time and space. What kind of society do we live in where the proposed [and nearly executed] torturous decades-long death of children for entertainment is more acceptable than the death of one child? Entertainment is a function of literature [and film and TV], not its end. It is used to draw us in, to hold us, to sugar the bitter pills probably expounded on. The death of children is one of the most harrowing experiences for us, if it is a violent death we will respond immediately with disgust, detest and hatred. This is not often used, but when it is used it is really effetive. Think about C'era una volta il west>/i> or the twist this gets in the Omen . Children of Earth is not feelgood SF like Star Trek , Stargate or even Star Wars , it remembers that hurt can be entertaining, it remembers Aldous Huxley, George Orwell, Brazil , Blade Runner . And it shows us how, step by step, through 'practical contraints', societies fall from grace and become oppressive, totalitarian. 'The 90% sit at home in their comfy chairs ...'

Thanks goodness for Dierk's comments - I was beginning to wonder whether I'd watched a different series to everyone else. All the focus here seems to be on killing off Ianto, or the too-quick way that the 'baddie' was defeated. But the Alien wasn't the bad guy here - that was us. The little old lady that pointed the army to where Gwen and Rhys were hiding the children (hiding the marginalised from destruction at the hands of the authorities - sound familiar?); the soldiers following orders; the politicians calmly deciding which children should die. We're the monsters - that's the heart of this story. Until this week, Torchwood was just a nice add on (like SJA) which kept me entertained until the next DW comes along. Not now. This transcended sci-fi, and was probably the best drama I've seen on TV for years. Bring it back - but bring it back like this.

Loved it. Loved that Ianto's dead. Loved Frobisher's choice, very strong and amazingly directed. Loved that the 456 only wanted the kids to get high, haha brilliant. Loved that Jack had to kill his own grandson. Loved the reference to the doctor at the beginning, because I was aksing where he was the whole time. The way they beat the 456 was very quick and lame, but forgivable. I don't know how they'll continue it. I hope they just leave it there. RTD redeemed himself in my eyes.

"Bring it back - but bring it back like this." Agreed. Usually Torchwood is just good Doctor Who lite fun. This, however, is incredible, and beats at least 75% of (the new) Doctor Who. Which is a tough thing to do, considering how good the surrounding episodes are. Actually, it's hard to say it, because Torchwood has never been this good, and it's almost scary.

Was nobody else disturbed by the fact Gwen and Lois shsred the contact lenses..right out of the holer?..Eww.

Have to say, after 4 days of being relatively unimpressed, I quite liked episode 5. I've always found most Doctor Who-based shows to veer from a too-light tone to one of heavy melodrama. This episode pulled the heavy tone back from melodrama somewhat. On a technical level, the score was almost universally rubbish and very rarely fit the tone of the scene it played over. A merely competent composer should be able to do much better. Also, the directing was quite schizophrenic. While the episode featured some good, (but not great), shots, like the pull away from Frobisher's daughters' room, scenes like the children being taken from the busses was shot in the most unimaginative, point-and-shoot way possible. 1/5 for sound; 2/5, (3/5 in places), for direction.

ok folks, this would have been my ending: total despair for the people of earth, torchwood powerless to intervene, kids about to be handed over to the 456, BANG! rain surrounds thames house ASCENDING rain.... next thing we know judoon & the shadow proclamation hauling ass and doing an intergalactic drugs bust. 456 judged, sentenced and executed earth safe.... sigh of relief from all END hows about THAT for an ending!

at least if rtd is going to leave a resolution to the problem right until the last minute, and lets face it, none of us was really convinced that jack solved it in only 5 mins, at least have it as something that we can relate to

B.T.W if the 456 was only one entity, why the hell didnt they just vent the "special atmosphere" after the 10% demand !!! problem solved!

I really enjoyed it, I just wonder if we all saw the same show, given some of the criticisms given here... Or maybe some people are just bitter that Ianto died, or the Doctor turned up, or whatever. I do think Jack's solution was typical Trek/Who gibberish, but the twist of the sacrifice he made did actually mean that the ending was bitter. I am also bemused by some of the child torture type comments... You do realise that this was a drama don't you, that no kids where actually hurt (I assume) in the making of this show, certainly none where hurt for our entertainment. One of the great things about fiction is that it allows us to explore some of the darker sides of life, and sacrifice is one of them. I don't necessarily think the government was that evil, in deciding to offer 10% of kids to save the whole of humanity. it was more pragmatic... and thats what made this show really come to life for me... I just hope the BBC is prepared to commit to more serious drama (lots of it scifi I hope) like this.

WOW! it would seem that the BBC's gamble for just 5 part's to a series has paid off. I personally thought Torchwood: Children of Earth, was deep and RTD managed to hit the tear ducts yet again, killing off Ianto and giving us something to cry about in the last episode, I think the fact that Jack has left to travel the universe co-insides with the fact that he finds the doctor and helps him again so they have done that as a great bit of scripting. i think they blended cult sci-fi in with something a little bit different, using kids in the series was a bit of a risky move but it makes you think. At every point of this series you were trying to guess what twists and turns were coming next but couldn't predict it. The BBC would be foolish and down right stupid to ditch a show with such high ratings, with nearly 6 million enthusiastic viewers this series, it sure beat off the usual prime time garbage. GREAT JOB RUSSELL Pete x

I must have been watching a totally different programme, then. I feel totally betrayed. It's like they ripped out the still-beating heart of the show for shock value. What a waste of a good franchise. They turned Jack into a monster for the sake of a bit of drama. The best thing about this series was the question of which children the government felt were more deserving of saving. That was interesting. But Jack watching his 'grandchild' suffer like that? That wasn't even dramatic - let alone logical - and I'm no purist, either. But this one had no impact. That was piss poor TV and a cheap trick. Lousy. Really disappointing. And I am absolutely SICK of seing Barrowman's acting reduced to the level of a moob flash. Gah. Compromised beyond belief. Will have to watch series one again just to remember the days when drama didn't equate with a body count.

Not commenting - just closing the italics.

I thought the whole thing was brilliant TV, stylish, thrilling, scary and thought provoking, with great performances all round... just one tiny nit pick... if the Torchwood team were blasted out of thier base on the run and trying to find help, surely Capt Jack would have remembered that Sarah Jane Smith is siting in Ealing with an alien supercomputer in her attic... I Know SJA is a kids show, a very good one, but it's all supposed to be part of the same `world' as seen in the final of DW season 4?

I ain't all surprised they didn't bring SJ in or her super computer. Yeah it might suck for continuity reasons, but TW CoE was adult drama aimed very much at an adult audience, I don't think the Beeb wanted to risk a cross over that might subject them to a barrage of hate for attracting a young audience to this. Janey - I actually half agree with you, they have put a big wrecking ball through the Torchwood franchise. However that doesn't mean they have killed it... I personally feel they have shown us fans the respect to say hey this is "real" and the world is a nasty place, good guys can die... Now the question and challenge is to rebuild the show in the next season in a way which the fans will care about without copping out. I just hope that when (if?) they bring Capt Jack back they do it in a way that fits with the show, his leaving seemed fairly concrete to me, it wasn't like he went for a holiday in South America.... I just wonder who would howl loudest if they started the next series with Jack and Ianto in a shower scene ;-)

I for one think that CoE was a magnificent effort on the whole, and far, far better than I was expecting. I'm not going to go into the plot here - that's been done well enough by others - but there is one comment I'd like to make: With all respect, I think a major point has been missed by those posting here. Namely, that a great deal of this story was actually concerned with the horrific decisions that have to be made by those in a position to affect a particular situation. With both the Govt and with Jack, they have a simple decision to make: do they commit a dreadful crime themselves, or do they allow a greater one to be perpetrated by adversaries, one that will cause the extinction of all human life on this planet? In fact, do the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, to quote a certain Vulcan? Logically, the answer has to be Yes. But, of course, we are not logical creatures, and the making of such a decision is where the true horror lies. Realistically, would Jack genuinely sacrifice his own grandchild without a huge amount of turmoil and soul-searching? Quite apart from the personal connection, he'd already sent a bunch of kids into a potentially lethal situation in 1965, and one thing that an immortal does have in spades is the time to consider the consequences of their previous actions. Imagine the pain involved in being forced to perform similar actions again - but this time with a family member! The question Jack has to answer is: one person, or the entire planetary population? Death is a certainty ... take your pick Jack. Who lives and who dies? We should all be very grateful that WE don't have to make decisions like this. IMO, he was brave in the extreme to do what had to be done. Anyway, having made and carried through such a decision, no matter how logical, who can blame Jack for wanting to get away? For wanting to hide his head in shame, despite the fact that he's actually just saved the entire human race? Such a sad situation, and so human a reaction. Poor b*gger. One other quick comment regarding Ianto: I thought his death was well-considered, from a story-telling viewpoint. RTD & co have always made it plain that Torchwood is a very dangerous place to work ... the point is also made with his demise that deaths, even (and perhaps especially) those of "good guys", are not necessarily heroic, and with a purpose. Sometimes people just get killed, and the Universe doesn't give a damn. I applaud the writers' decision to give him a death without real reason - it's an accurate description of life. RIP Ianto, you'll be missed. But, sometimes sh*t happens.

It was truly excellent TV. A riveting five days. It felt a blt like I think Quatermass felt in the 60s. And some really good decisions were made - don't show the alien clearly, don't give it a stupid name etc. I figured that it would inevitably peter out towards the end as the Torchwood heroes solved the case, but that wasn't what happened. The parallels with the holocaust kept on coming, from the terrible decisions being made in the name of government, to the people inside Thames House clawing for a way out as they were killed by a virus, to the resonance with Goebbels killing his children in the bunker in Berlin, and all the terrble moral choices some of the characters were having to make throughout... It was outstanding television and outstanding science fiction. If only there were more.

I absolutely agree that this - the entire 5 parter, but particularly the last two episodes - has been some amazing television, very powerful stuff. Most of what I think has already been said so I won't repeat, but I will say that I sincerely hope this is the end of Torchwood. As much as I love the show, this should be the end of it. I would hate to see anything cheapen the impact that CoE had. As well as that, this feels like an ending for TW. I like it as an ending, but it would suck if the show went on. Bringing it back would feel very forced I think.

I actually really liked the fact it was over 5 days. and that each day was a day in the show, It was a really neat idea excectuted very well. not the gimmick I was expecting. as for the content of the show, I know many people hated the ending especially, but it makes sense. Gwen was the one to lead us in, its only right she closes it as a survivor. Jack has to leave, with his little troupe a complete disaster, haunted by what a true leader has to go through, it makes you appreciate just how hard the doctor has to work. A fourth season would be good, since Jack even says "I haven't travelled enough YET" so he will be back. A new gwen free Torchwood would be a nice fresh start for series 4. And if we're lucky, not set in cardiff featuring weevils every damn day. But, who knows, maybe it'll start with Jack and Jenny in space battling foes across the universe. I know that'll be a lot more interesting than just slowly rotating cast members in the Hub, playing over relationship drama again and again. [gwen/jack was really boring and tedious to watch as a romantic/sexual relationship] when they tried to force it, it was just obvious they needed to force some love triangles and boring. but this, this wipes the slate clean perfectly. Hopefully Matt Smith wont encounter Jack for every major 11th doc event and rightly so. Torchwood is its own creature, especially now. That was a fantastic ending, to a show that got better every series and went out with a fantastic ending. A tragic broken hero running away to escape his troubles, an actual adult ending for a show, [adult meaning mature not just sex scenes and violence] which torchwood has finally earned the title of.

Khodge, thanks. One day I learn to proof-read; caught that bugger only after submitting, and this site does not allow me to edit a post even for a limited time.

After the ratings success of this mini series, surely in future it would be best to produce two 5 episode stories a year, rather then 13 stand alone episodes.

Torchwood: Children Of Earth episode 5 review: the finale, Torchwood: Children Of Earth - hopes for the final episode, Torchwood: Children Of Earth episode 4 review, 5 Doctor Who universe characters who could join Torchwood, Torchwood: Children Of Earth episode 3 review, Torchwood: Children Of Earth episode 2 review, Torchwood Children Of Earth: a ratings hit, Torchwood: Children Of Earth episode 1 review, James Moran on writing Torchwood: Children Of Earth All on the front page.

Fantastic!! Lets have more and lets have it now. Unfortunately the ending does suggest no more will be made.

I would give TW a proper series for the 4th series. I don't think another 5day special would work, given that the only members of TW left are Gwen and some odd bloke in Scotland. That said I do think there are huge lessons to be learned from this excellent series. Their is a definite appetite for hard hitting (scifi) drama that pulls no punches and expects a lot from the audience.

Pity Season 3 is only as long as it is...RTD's done great things with Torchwood, and with revitalising Who, and kudos to him for that... BUT..as I was watching the 5th ep of COE, I had a horrible feeling of deja vu..... When Jack's grandson was the one that was instrumental in sending the 456 back to where they came from and died in the process it struck me I'd seen this all before. I might be showing my age here, but try and track down another fine British scifi mini series (when it was originally aired) Quatermass (or the Quatermass Conclusion, I think) made in the early 80s, with John Mills as the venerable professor..it had it all (Spoilers ahead) - aliens taking the young of earth for (possibly) lifestyle reasons, (manifested as a beam from the heavens) government pretty much as nasty as the seemingly unstoppable alien threat, and the grandchild of the main character dying in the course of their vital part in sending the alien threat back to where it came..and the tone was pretty much dead on with both shows. Nevertheless, well executed, if not the most original plotline. Here's hoping for a season 4, Torchwood's best years are still ahead of it(damn pity about Ianto, though)

Well, Davies clearly knows his SF history. CoE borrowed heavily from Quartermass [the original from the 1950s], Dulwich Horror , Lovecraft's Cthulu myth, Dr Who and several other sources.

I can't believe all these "oh, you've turned Jack into a monster", "that isn't in keeping with the show". Torchwood was a darker TV show than I've seen in a long time. Jack had to make a decision - sacrifice one child or save millions. He only had minutes to make this decision. 6 months later he is clearly still destroyed by his decision. I don't think that makes him a bad guy. The same as Frobisher, according to Spears, was not a bad man. I think Jack will soon meet the Doctor who will help him through, as he too has destroyed those close to him 'for the greater good'. Incidentally, only the 'mysterious Torchwood 4' remains with Canary Wharf and Cardiff being blown up, and apparently a screenshot Lois looked at advised Torchwood 2, in Scotland, had been disbanded.

So these kids, they make you feel good? ... have you tried heroin? We can get that for you easily! How about some nice opium? It grows here quite freely! Just a bit of a disconnect for me there, how about offering the aliens some easier to control and more potent drugs. Come to think of it, what the heck does a child have in the way of biology that the aliens would be able to use that we couldn't do chemically...

The screenshot referred to above actually said 'is thought to have been disbanded'. Personally I still have very high hopes for the 'very strange man' who runs it (did someone on here add the name Archie or did I dream that?). I've even been mentally running through a list of possible Scottish actors to play him - Ken Stott, Douglas Henshall, John Hannah to name but a few. Or the chap who played Dr Marsham in Bramwell. Not David Tennant unfortunately. It need not preclude a return of Jack - just that he wouldn't be the leader (which he was rubbish at anyway.) Loads of potential for dramatic clashes in that scenario! As to Feefers' comments -I agree. You'd think the 456 themselves would have come up with something as their technology is apparently so advanced. And I'm puzzled about how they've made do with 11 for forty odd years and now they want hundreds of thousands more? Are we to suppose that only the leadership have been getting high up to now (accounting for the nasty mood swings perhaps?)but now they want to share with the rest of their planet. Perhaps the majority of the 456 are decent aliens, ruled by a corrupt, self-serving elite. (Nothing new there then!) Ah well, must get a grip, it's only a story. (A jolly good one though.)

Just as a matter of interest, what's the consensus on whether we killed *all* the 456 (as a species) with the reverse thingie DxM, or merely their ambassador? Personally I think it was probably Xenocide which in the context of Dr Who & Torchwood has implications all of its own.

If the 456 can be identified with the Macra - as has been suggested - then they probably did survuve as a race as a devolved species of the Macra seem to have been the nasty entities lurking in the fast lane in 'Gridlock'. (Incidentally, Gwen does say 'This is gridlock' when she's stuck in the traffic jam - but perhaps I'm giving it too much significance.)If they are the Macra then presumably we've just encountered them as they start their journey down the evolutionary ladder. And it would be dramatically satisfying as we already know that the Face of Boe (probably Captain Jack 5 billion years into the future) dies saving the remnant of the human race from said creatures.

One of the many reasons that people who do not like SF cite is that it is totally unrelated to their own existence and emotions, with too much emphasis on "technobabble". Torchwood this last week has shown just how good SF can connect with the us as people by taking situations any of us would be appalled by or shocked at and integrating those into a simple " aliens want to kill us " type story. Quite simply this was riveting TV. Ok there are some flaws ( just why would a government minister wait for a temp to go to the loo when he hasne even sanctioned her presence at the alien meeting ?, How the hell do you push a fork life through a brick wall in a high security prison and lift out a block of concrete that didnt even mess up Jacks hair when cracked open ?? ) but all fiction, and very often science fiction has logical flaws, simply so the story can continue. Life is about na series of coincidences and you can destroy any great work of fiction with a simple " but ah, what if....? ". Torchwood addressed serious concerns about the power of government and our simple obedience to its power, and even more important our total ignorance of the channels that power follows. It had some brilliant performances and some incredibly powerful moments. ( Oh and by the way, ALL tv/film/literature is manipulating, its designed to be that way you idiots )To those of you who seem incredulous that we watch a child tortured in the name of entertainment, we dont have to come out smiling with a warm feeling inside from everything ! Regardless of how ridiculously quickly Jack sorted the problem it was the sheer gut wrenching power of that choice he had to make that made this a totally human drama. I have never been a fan of Torchwood. From the start it has been facile, badly acted and scripted with a pathetic nod to "adult orientation " by having two men kissing ( OOOOOH !!!), but this was something else. This was as good as any of the best Doctor Who episodes and for me that was truly something. Do we carry on ? Do we have Jack back? I dont know, I tend to agree that this is a great ending and we should end on a high as all the best shows have done, I suppose all we can do is wait and see. In the meantime, Thankyou BBC and Mr. Davies for a truly stunning piece of television.

I never thought I'd like 'Torchwood' but now I do. Tell the Yanks to stick 'Heroes' and the overrated 'B.S.G.', we've got better stuff over here!

happi-boy: Of course we don't have to 'come out smiling with a warm feeling inside from everything'. But we didn't have to see the actual death to realize its impact. That could have been conveyed by the reactions of those around, and perhaps more effectively. There is a danger of becoming desensitized to violence when we watch it from a safe distance from behind a small glass screen. And, sadly, there are people for whom such images feed something sick inside them. This was a thought provoking drama (still raising issues in my head nearly a week later) and one of the thoughts it provoked in me was that such a scene would have been unacceptable 30 years ago, but now we watch it almost without comment.Its part of the way we regard and 'use' children in our culture, even as we seek to protect them in other ways,(at least protect our own - children in other countries, meanwhile are used as slave labour for our leisure pursuits.)This surely, was one of the things this series sought to address.

The idea of the old fashioned british fight seems rather silly when you consider my favorite British author, Malcolm Lowery, let alone Shakespeare. Torchwood has now leaped light years ahead of Dr. Who. The human responses were everything in this series and a Luke Skywalker, or Harry Potter ending would have been so untrue to this brilliant series. The sad thing is it will be impossible to maintain, so maybe letting go of Torchwood would be the best. I hope not of course.

I hate to speculate too much on season 4 but don't forget that Jack could go off and travel space and time for 100 years or 1,000 years and come back and restart Torchwood the day after he left. If time heals all wounds - he has an excess of it. It would be great for Gwen and who ever is left to not even have missed him, yet he was gone hundreds of years. And of course he would look none the older. BTW - You Brits definitely have the better Sci-Fi - at least on television. I love my BBCAmerica and won't watch these shows on Syfy.

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