The big questions from Doctor Who: The Name Of The Doctor

Feature Simon Brew 20 May 2013 - 09:29

Spoilers: we pick up the threads left behind by the bombshell ending to Doctor Who series 7, The Name Of The Doctor...

Big, massive, episode-ruining spoilers in this article!

Do not read until you've seen Doctor Who series 7: The Name Of The Doctor

We should reiterate from the start - you do not want to read this unless you have seen The Name Of The Doctor, the Doctor Who series 7 finale. Really. Because what we're going to do here is - with the help of some of the fine commenters on this site (we've credited people at the bottom, do shout if we've left you off by accident) - uncover some of the remaining questions, and, where possible, speculate about some answers.

This is your last spoiler warning.

Without further ado...

Who is John Hurt?

Or should that be Who is John Hurt, without the question mark. There's no getting around it: this is the big one. At the end of The Name Of the Doctor, the exact card that appears on the screen reads 'Introducing John Hurt as The Doctor'. So let's start there.

So, the obvious first. John Hurt is The Doctor. But which one? Is he The Valeyard?

This seems a logical place to start. At the end of Trial Of A Time Lord, the sixth Doctor story, the Valeyard - who has been prosecuting the Doctor - is hinted to be a future regeneration of him. There's consistently been a degree of doubt about this, but if, for the sake of argument, we take it as straight, then it could explain why John Hurt is The Doctor. It's just where in the Doctor's line he'd actually fit in. The Valeyard, according to The Master, "is an amalgamation of the darker side of the Doctor's nature". Given that John Hurt's Doctor tells us that "what I did, I did without choice", it certainly hints that might fit. The Valeyard is, furthermore, said to be the penultimate Doctor. Again, lots of this is up for debate.

In the episode, do note that The Great Intelligence uttered the line "The Doctor lives his life in darker hues day upon day and he will have other names before the end. Storm, The Beast, The Valeyard" (and, as the excellent SFX reminds us, in The Parting Of The Ways he's known as 'The Oncoming Storm'). If Hurt's Doctor doesn't take the name of the Doctor, then he may well be one of those. Even if two of them are X-Men...

Which brings us to the other major theory...

Is he a Doctor we didn't know about?

Almost every Doctor was seen or heard in The Name Of The Doctor (even Christoper Eccleston's jacket walked by at one point). There may have been a fleeting glance of Paul McGann's eighth, but it was blink and you'll miss it if it was there (we couldn't see it after three attempts. But producer Marcus Wilson confirmed on Twitter that they're all in there). Crucially, he's also the only Doctor we've not seen regenerate on screen (well, there may be an exception, which we'll come to in a minute). And we wonder if Steven Moffat is tapping into that.

Is, then, John Hurt the missing regeneration? Does he fall between the eighth and ninth Doctor as we know them now? And would that make Matt Smith the twelfth, rather than the eleventh, Doctor?

Well, it may not be that straightforward. Go back to the end of The Name Of The Doctor, and Matt Smith says that the actual name 'The Doctor' is one that he chose. It's also "a promise you make", one that John Hurt's Doctor did not live up to.

Thus - still following this? - is John Hurt the same person, but not one who took the title of The Doctor, or who lost the right to call himself that, given the actions he took? If so, that means that while Matt Smith is the eleventh Doctor, there's the potential for others who aren't counting towards the total as we know it (although presumably they count towards the regenerations).

We can reasonably safely assume that the actions Hurt's Doctor is haunted by tie into the Time War, and from what we know of that, the Doctor had to take drastic, un-Doctor like genocidal action that all but wiped out the Time Lords. At that stage, did John Hurt's version lose the right to the Doctor title, and thus we came to know Christopher Eccleston's take as the ninth Doctor, rather than John Hurt's?

Or could it be...?

That Paul McGann's Doctor 'died' in the Time War, regenerated into John Hurt's, who, as a consequence of his actions, relinquished the name before handing over to Christopher Eccleston?

Or is he Paul McGann's Doctor, just aged?

If John Hurt doesn't slip in between McGann and Eccleston, then could he actually be the eighth Doctor? Could it be that the actions the eighth Doctor had to take were so severe that they aged and broke that generation of him? Hence, Hurt is playing an aged version of Paul McGann? Most theories do seem to centre on McGann's Doctor at the moment one way or another, and this is surely a feasible one.

Is he the very first Doctor?

If you think about it, McGann's isn't actually the only regeneration we never saw on screen. We never saw anyone regenerate into William Hartnell's Doctor. Was Hartnell's Doctor the first, or the first regeneration? Because if it's the latter, that suggests that there's an origin Doctor we've not met yet.

So, just putting it out there, could John Hurt's Doctor precede the first as we currently know it? That would certainly explain something that Dorium once said, about a secret that the Doctor has spent all his life running from. Mind you, that might then rule out the Time War, given that it was introduced into Doctor Who when the show was revived, so there may be continuity issues there. But it's possible. And it is a time travel show...

Is he a future Doctor?

If he is, would Matt Smith's Doctor know what he looked like? At least he's met a version of the Valeyard before (although he didn't look like John Hurt!). That said, could John Hurt's Doctor nonetheless be a future regeneration, who is coming back to stop his earlier version doing something awful? It'd be like The Two/Three/Five Doctors, only with a Doctor we don't know about yet...

Is he The Master?

It's a long shot, but was The Doctor once The Master, who changed his name? After all, "the name I chose is The Doctor". Why couldn't it once have been The Master?

Is he not the Doctor?

It seems pretty certain that he is. Firstly, the big caption on the screen at the end of the episode. Secondly, he couldn't even be there - and the rules were established - at the end if he wasn't.

Was Christopher Eccleston's Doctor an imposter?

We've got James Moran to thank for this one. His argument is that "when watching the ninth Doctor for the first time, after all the Bad Wolf stuff started cropping up everywhere, I somehow became convinced that at some point, the real ninth Doctor would turn up, battle-scarred, and say "give me back my TARDIS". The Eccleston-ninth would either be an impostor, or the actual ninth who had managed to jump his timeline and steal the tenth's (battle-scarred bloke) TARDIS to stop him(self) doing something terrible. Or vice versa (battle-scarred tenth had come back to stop Eccleston doing the terrible thing that had led to whatever tragic events caused the battle-scarring, etc)".

Does the casting of the 50th anniversary special offer a clue?

Well, yes and no. We know that David Tennant's tenth (we think) Doctor is back, but also Rose Tyler too. That suggests that Matt Smith's eleventh (we think) Doctor will catch up with him at a certain point in his timeline (there's a reason, presumably, why it's Rose and not Donna or Martha who are back). Which version of Tennant's Doctor we're going to get is presumably up for debate too, but we'd wage it's the non-human one.

So: we have Doctor 10 and Doctor 11 that we know of, along with John Hurt's Doctor too, and UNIT. Other casting news is being kept under wraps (don't forget that most of the episode is being shot on closed sets in Cardiff). There are some spoiler-y rumours, which it doesn't seem fair to go into in detail here (this is about the episodes we've seen, rather than the ones we haven't), that may too suggest things are being shaken to the core somewhat.

Thus, predictably, we know the ingredients of the 50th anniversary special are substantive, but we've no idea - nor should we - on how they blend together.

It's not just Doctor theories that were left over by The Name Of The Doctor either...

Is The River Song story over?

Just before the Doctor went through the tear/scar/special effect, River Song disappeared, seemingly forever. However: a question. She said that there's still a link between her and Clara. But why is that? It was that link that was keeping River alive. Are they related in some way? When the Doctor asked River about it, she gave her answer of choice: "spoilers". There's still something there yet to be uncovered, clearly. Given the warped family tree of River Song, don't be surprised if one turns out to be the other's brother or something...

Is there an unsolved TARDIS mystery?

From commenter Sean The Sheep, something we'd not considered: "Remember that the TARDIS claims the Doctor did not steal it; it says it stole the Doctor. Therefore, Clara was acting as an agent of the Tardis when she directed Dr Hartnell away from a perfect TARDIS towards a defective one. That makes the TARDIS The Great Intelligence. Not immediately, of course, but we now know the Tardis will go bad sometime in the future: the past depends on it".

Is this to do with the Time War somehow?

It surely has to be. Clara, after all, read The History Of The Time War in Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS, and what event do we know to be significant in the Doctor's history, that conversely we know little about? Going back to John Hurt, they've not cast a young actor for his Doctor deliberately. This is an older, battle-scarred, haunted one. The actions of the Time War, from what we know of them, would certainly have had that level of impact.

Is our head hurting still?

Yes it is.

Doctor who?

Even though the actual name of the Doctor per se has rarely been something of interest, it took on a different complexion as a result of the series seven finale. Because now, we know that The Doctor is a name that he chose. So what was it before, and is it a name we know? We've already touched on the likes of the Valeyard above, but the Doctor at some stage has picked a new identity to presumably cover up what happened with the old one. So what is the older identity?

Clara who?

If you're looking for the huge question that's not being talked about much, might we point you in the direction of this one.

We're told that Clara was born to save the Doctor. Presumably somebody was behind that though. Who would that be? The possible answer, and probably the most Doctor Who-style approach, would be another version of the Doctor himself. Given that Jenna-Louise Coleman is returning next series, that's one mystery that might just be being saved for the future. But even though lots of questions have been answered about Clara, there's still a sizeable mystery hidden in plain sight there.

Did the Doctor save Clara?

The Doctor went through the time scar whatsit to save Clara. Clara was still alive due to her link, in theory, with River (although the fact that River turned out to be an echo may alter that). The Doctor thus found Clara, reached out his hand, and then John Hurt happened. Clara fainted (we assume it was fainting), and the last we saw, Matt Smith was carrying her. So she's presumably okay.

We would imagine it's safe to assume that the original Clara, rather than the many other versions of her, was saved by the Doctor. But if not, then there's no central version of her left, as she sacrificed herself, leaving lots of different Claras throughout time.

But one thought: if she did that, do we assume that all of these versions talk to each other? If not, how would she have rewritten history in Asylum Of The Daleks, without there being some kind of Clara Prime to coordinate the effort? Because she must have already done the sacrifice at that point - well, unless we're going to press the "timey-wimey" button - to be able to do so?

Who was the woman in the shop who gave Clara the number to the TARDIS?

From JackJGreen on Twitter, this one. Remember that in The Bells Of Saint John Clara was given the phone number to the TARDIS by a strange woman? It was, we were told, "the best helpline in the universe". But who was that woman? Our best guess at the moment: it was another Clara. But is there something more sinister or deep at work there? Or could it have been Rose Tyler? Perhaps it's something to do with the River Song link? Maybe we should distract you from the fact that we don't know with another picture of John Hurt?

Where does The Great Intelligence fit in?

Good question. Either The Great Intelligence was never going to be quite the presence we originally thought, or there's more to come (see the TARDIS theory above). He's fractured himself by going back through the history of the Doctor, but by Clara following him through, we're led to believe that his work has been undone.

But has he been destroyed? Or is it just Dr Simeon who had to pay (again) the ultimate price? Given that The Great Intelligence isn't tied to a particular body, and that it's a foe who goes back decades in Doctor Who lore, we can't imagine that it's gone for good.

Why did the TARDIS explode in series 5?

Still no clearer on that. We've done a fuller piece on that here.

Remember Clarence?

Cast your mind right back to the start of The Name Of The Doctor: who was Clarence? He was the prisoner in 1893 - the year of The Crimson Horror - who knew the exact coordinates of the Doctor's tomb on Trenzalore. Time continuity suggests he wasn't The Great Intelligence - so who was he, and how did he know where to find the Doctor's final resting place? He's listed in the credits as played by Michael Jenn, and it's his sole Doctor Who credit to date. So no clues there. But somebody on the Doctor's travels this series knew what was coming. That was either Clarence, or the person who told him. Either way, that's still an unresolved mystery.

How long is it until November?

Too bloody long.

Would you like a strong coffee now?

Yes please.

Credits: Simon Brew, Andrew Johns, James Moran, WhoIsTheDoctor, paleion

Add your own theories in the comments. We'll try and keep this post updated with them...

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The Valeyard was not specifically pointed out as a future incarnation of the Doctor. He was an "amalgamation somewhere between his twelfth and final incarnation" IE he's a Watcher like entity.

Well, as for Clarence – I was convinced after the episode that he was being manipulated by Whisperman. He was just repeating the nursery rhymes, wasn't he?

I remember thinking "Bad Wolf" was going to turn out to be a reference to the Ninth Doctor not being "real", as well. Man, back when we didn't know what the show was going to turn out to be like, we believed it could pull basically ANYTHING...

It seems pretty clear to me that Hurt's intended to be a "missing" regeneration. He's the ninth incarnation of the character's body, but because his actions caused him to not be "the Doctor", he's not "the ninth Doctor". So the Doctor is now on his twelfth life, but he's still "the eleventh Doctor". That's his "greatest secret", the one he "took to his grave".

(Remember that this was planted by Moffat way back in The Beast Below, as well: "Then I'll have to find another name, because I won't be the Doctor any more...")

He can't be a future incarnation, because the episode makes very clear that Smith's Doctor doesn't know anything about his own future - but he does know/recognise Hurt. And I don't believe he's an aged Eighth Doctor, because there's no reason why they wouldn't just get McGann back for that (or why McGann wouldn't do it).

I think Hurt is playing a previously unknown incarnation in-between Eight and Nine. I don't think he's an incarnation before One, or the Valeyard. An older Eight? That could be possible, but why not just bring back McGann, who is almost two decades older now to play an older Eight? No, for now, I'll call Hurt Eight Point Five.

This Clara we've seen this season was THE original Clara, as River said, and versions of her were scattered around time, to become Dalek Asylum girl and Victorian London girl etc. So there's nothing really special about Clara herself, other that everyone's birth can be called to be a miracle etc., and she's the somewhat meta-companion, the the symbolic companion that the Doctor will always need, that will always save the Doctor. Donna has said before that the Doctor needs companions...and it kind of diminishes his personal choices if it's actually the Great Intelligence screwing up his life since birth. This episode cements that the Doctor mustn't be alone.

Also, the issue of 'Silence will fall' or 'Silence must fall' is still hanging out there...unless 'silence' is meant as the Doctor's silence about his secret 'falling' and not The Silence as a group of creatures....

also *possible spoiler for 50th* the image that has been released/papped of John Hurt on Set of the special show's him wearing Ecclestone's leather Jacket but a bit more battered. Is he an amalgamation of all the Doctors dark sides or is he the 9th body and the 10th/9th for once kept a Jacket.

Also talking of the Doctors dark side can there be any link to Toby jones' Dream Lord?

Let's have a look at some of those possibilities:

* Future doctor - In TNOTD Clara and 11 only see incarnations of the Doctor up to and including 11. Clara even said something "I've seen all your faces, all eleven".

That's because the grave at Trenzalore was ELEVEN's grave. He was supposed to die in the timeline of the episode - but Clara jumped in and saved him. Clara changed the timeline. Therefore - there were NO future Doctor's seen in the episode.

* That excludes any regeneration after Matt - but the Hurt doctor could still be an aged version of ELEVEN....

* First Doctor - that could be possible. But didn't Hartnell's Doctor regenerate from old age? That doesn't make narrative sense if the Hurt doctor became Hartnell, who ran away in shame...

* Was 9 an Imposter - no. That's just silly.

That pretty much leaves two alternatives:

The Time War doctor who is either:

The regeneration between McGann and Ecclestone. He isn't a "forgotten" Doctor, because he had a different name.


A partial regeneration; a "halfway" regeneration (8.5, if you will).


An old McGann Doctor.

I go with the first theory, at the moment - a doctor between McGann and Eccles who renounced the name.

You're forgetting one important question. How does River know the docyor's name? Is a past version if River going to turn up at some point? But if her story IS over, how's that going to happen?

I just want to point out that I posted two separate ideas on this very site months ago, for the 50th Anniversary special. They were that 1. There should be a 'special guest' Doctor who would only appear for one episode and would regenerate at the end into the proper new Doctor for the next series. And 2. That there should be a multi-Doctor story with Tennant, Smith and whoever-comes-next working side by side, the end of which would see Matt Smith regenerate into the person he's been working alongside for the last hour. Not a million miles off. Roll on November.

yeah, it is, they had a great chance to tie all that up here. it makes perfect sense as to why the silence would;t want the doctor to say his name in trenzalore as others could enter his tomb-timestream and mess up the past. they could also have used this as a reason the ~Tardis blew, in a way. Maybe there will be a definitive answer to it in the next series or Moffats final one

Two other questions: 'Where do the Silence fit in?' and 'Who gave Clara the Doctor's phone number in "The Bells of St John"?' And one bonus: 'Why did the Moff save Jenny in "The Doctor's Daughter"?'

The only problem I have with him being a missing doctor that was part of the time war is that 9,10 and 11 all acknowledge that they took part in the time war and that they personally did things during it including the genocidal stuff. If there is a regeneration that they've kept secret because he's done all this awful stuff why would 9,10 and 11 admit to any of it at all? Would't they talk about it like it was some one else who done those things?

Also quick, was there any clarification about the woman in the shop who gave Clara the Doctors number back in The Bells of St John?

I have one question no-one has asked yet. When Clara went into the Doctor's time stream, Did she actually become all of the Doctor's companions? Did she possess them? Or were her incarnations simply a combination of various physical people and phantoms?

OKey dokey...

1) Remember in "Rose" the 9th Doctor catches his reflection and (I have no DVDs and I cant find a youtube clip right now) he makes a comment about his ears, hinting that he has just regenerated.

2) I read somewhere (can't remember... sorry!) that the costume John Hurt wears has hints from both 8 and 9. It's more visible in tabloid set photos.

3) The question... the question that must never be answered... Doctor Who? It's not about the name... it's about who he really is and what his past holds. (I know this has all been speculated I just need to plan it all in my head... it's too wibbly wobbly)

4) Also... I reckon that was supposed to be Eccleston. But he said no :( So The Moff had to come up with a good way in which to do it. The only flaw I can think of with this theory is that why not use Paul McGann as 8?

My head hurts. I'm sure I've forgotten to mention a burning point I was thinking about when the eurovision was on...

I'd put money on The Silence being involved in the 50th or next series. It's too big a story to not address. Moffat will have something planned for them ;)

Another reason to discount the older Eighth theory is that surely would, in the Doctor's mind at least, make Eight not count. Smith would therefore be the eleventh life but the 'Tenth Doctor'. Clara met eleven 'Doctors'. Not to mention she has been a constant in his life now and yet did not recognise Hurt's incarnation.Knowing what we know of the Time War being locked if Hurt's incarnation began and ended there, there's every possibility that this is why Clara never encountered him until now while deep in his timestream. I'm going to lean on the side of the 'lost disgraced incarnation' theory as it seems the most likely at this point.

I like the theory that he is a version previous to William Hartnell.

One of the best episodes I have ever seen

Bloody marvellous. Thank you!

We still don't know who gave Clara the phone number for the Tardis!

Also,"Clara was acting as an agent of the Tardis when she directed Dr Hartnell away from a perfect TARDIS towards a defective one."

Where did you get that from? They were in a Tardis repair shop and there's nothing to indicate that the first Tardis was in good working order. Clara just knew that that the one they took would be the right one for them and happened to mention its faults.

"Was Hartnell's Doctor the first, or the first regeneration?"

Don't forget that during a mind-probe scene in the T. Baker classic The Brain of Morbius we see a number of unfamiliar face who may-or-may-not be pre-Hartnell Doctors.

I believe he might be The Doctor who suffered all those losses The Great Intelligence made him lose. Though Clara saved him at the end it was made very clear that he was dying over and over in his timeline prior to this, River Song was even tracking some of his deaths. Though The Doctor's timeline was fixed, perhaps his memory remained of that timeline and the extreme measures he took in order to obtain at least a single victory. A Doctor who has only known loss and has never saved anyone in an alternate timeline might do something very 'un-doctor' like.

I recall in one of the 3rd or 4th Doctor episodes, the Time Lords had to make contact with the 1st Doctor who was trapped in a time eddy, and then it was never referred to again. Maybe..he's out

Does anybody else think that the crack in the tardis window upon landing at trenzalore might be important?

He "fell" down to Trenzalore in the Tardis when it refused to land remmeber....

Must it be the Time War? Why can their not be an even more un-Doctor like action in his distant past, maybe one that set him running in the first place? And wouldn't it make for a better secret if it wasn't one we had the gist of already? My money's on a pre-Hartnell Doctor. Or, because left-field theories are cool, a kind of Time Lord Dorian Gray portrait - all the un-Doctor things he's ever done channelled into one figure. I think the pay-off would be better if he was an actual incarnation of the Doctor rather than an inbetween Valeyard-esque figure, though.

The woman in the shop was a red herring, and a very good one. Clara got the TARDIS number because she always finds the Doctor, it's as simple as that.

But that ending couldn't have happened if it was Eccleston. Hurt can't have replaced him directly.

Oh, and TARDIS exploding: it may not have been directly addressed, but was it not solved? When the Doctor was trapped in the Pandorica he was no longer part of the world, and so on Trenzalore the Great Intelligence could freely plunder his timeline. And when he did so, i.e. as soon as the Doctor was trapped in the Pandorica, the TARDIS at every point on his timeline from Gallifrey to Trenzalore went boom. And the stars went out, which happened in both episodes. As far as I'm concerned, that's a resolution.

Perhaps Clarence is a broken soufflé Clara.

'At trenzalore, at the fall of the eleventh.' Interesting that the Tardis didn't land. It fell.

"but we now know the Tardis will go bad sometime in the future" Do we we? When did I miss that?

Well my view is that the plot is far too complex for the family viewing
that is suppose to be the audience. Although as a SciFi fan Im into the
convoluted plot and the constant questions.... My 9 year old kids have lost
interest in Doctor Who.

If my kids loose interest, lots of others do and the spiral down starts.

Lets get this story out of the way fast and return to the formula that worked so well for Moffat's predecessor.

The same crack is in the giant TARDIS tomb's window. Presumably we'll be going back to Trenzalore before too long...

Clarence is a multi-Clara after a gender correction operation. Simples.

Of course, maybe he's the real 3rd Doctor...

We never see the regeneration from Troughton to Pertwee after all.

Did anyone notice that at the beginning, when Jenny was putting away the coats, we heard the sound the Silence make when we forget they were there? Did they make her forget to shut the door? Why would the Silence help the Whisper Men? The whole point is that the Silence don't want the Whisper Men to succeed.

I thought that was a brilliant episode but ... god, I'm not going to be able to sleep tonight. What's with this bombshell? And now we have to wait until November?

I feel sorry for the Whovians who have been with the show for years now. It'll hit them harder. But don't get me wrong, I'm dying as well.

I love Clara. I thought she was perfect in this episode. Plus, her chemistry with the Doctor was adorably cute. Whouffle all the way. Lets hope that we see more in episodes to come!

Oh and I love John Hurt. He's great and probably my favorite actor now that he was the voice of Kilgarrah in Merlin and is now in Doctor Who.

I'm not entirely sure how I'm going to survive with all these feels now. Goddamit Moffat! XD

About the link between River and Clara, that's probably just the dream-state link created at the beginning of the episode for the "conference call". I think River is gone for good unless the writers decide to revive her inside Clara's dreams or something like that.

Have you not seen the episode? She obviously isn't as the reason she keeps popping up is because she jumped into the doctor's timeline. Also, the reason she was saying "I was born to save the Doctor" is so much more likely just because, she was born and to save him, she had to sacrifice herself. She realized that although she is the first Clara, this isn't the first time the Doctor has met her. She knew that she had to save him or everything would fall apart. Do you understand?

The "spoiler" River warned the Doctor about was that Clara was still alive inside the... thingy, that's why River herself was still there. Once Clara started to get weak (she later fainted), we can assume the link was getting weak, which made River fade away. I guess.

Could John Hurt be older version of human 10th doctor, born of war? Who knows what he went on to do. And please let Paul McGann turn up in the 50th!

My thoughts (and these may be echoed below but I'm gonna say them any way)...

Hurt is the 9th body of the man who calls himself The Doctor (between McGann and Eccleston) but is not The Ninth Doctor as, due to what he knew he was going to do in the Time War, he could not bring himself to take the name of someone whose profession is to heal and save lives.

So we have Doctor 1, Doctor 2, etc, Doctor 8, John Hurt's character (renamed to something like The General or the Storm Bringer or something suitably destructive), then Doctor 9 and so on.

Hurt's doctor is the Time War incarnation between 8 and 9 - after his genocidal decision to end the Time War his other incarnations have disowned him. Therefore Smith is actually the 12th Doctor. In the 50th the Time Lords are released from their time lock but Hurt is fatally wounded and can't regenerate due to the crossing of the time lines. Smith sacrifices himself to redeem his earlier self - Time Lords reward him with a new regeneration cycle therefore renewing the show for another 50 years....

I interpret the 'fall of the eleventh' as relating to the idea that John Hurt is a hidden regeneration i.e. with the uncovering of the Doctors secret, the 11th ceases to be the 11th and is actually the 12th - The eleventh 'falls'.

Still not sure how Clara 'saved' the Doctor. Most of the time his past incarnations didn't even notice her.

He is not the 12, or anything like that. He is the X'th Doctor. Yes. The X'th. He could exist ANYWHERE in the timeline. Anywhere, where the Doctor made the choice to break that promise. Where he let out his greatest secret. So, he could have been any one of the Doctors incarnations...

"who gave clara the phone number?" is among the questions in that article.

I remember spending a whole week expecting Bad Wolf to be some horrific new form of Davros, after the booming dalek voice in the trailer declared "They survived through ME". Sadly not, though. Unless I missed it, the article doesn't seem to mention Hurt's clothes. It is most definitely CE's Doctor's leather jacket (or extremely close to it) and a waistcoat and neck scarf of similar style (but not design) to PM's Doctor. Although the Doctor doesn't usually wear clothes from previous incarnations, perhaps (JH) isn't in that form for very long, i.e. PM regenerates in JH in the Time War, JH has to do his terrible deed, then regenerates into CE. I certainly agree that JH is not an aged version of anyone, they've never done that on DW before. God forbid we ever get a prequel of William Hartnell's Doctor: The College Years. I'm not aware it's ever been stated in the show that the Doctor ages visibly in one form before regenerating. Now everyone, cross fingers and toes that they at least got PM and CE back for a double regeneration scene.

that was Vastra tracking his "deaths/losses".

Some thoughts I had as I read this piece:

1. You say River kept Clara alive. Wasn't it the other way around?

2. "Therefore, Clara was acting as an agent of the Tardis when she directed Dr Hartnell away from a perfect TARDIS towards a defective one. That makes the TARDIS The Great Intelligence." - How? Surely it makes the perfect TARDIS he didn't take the GI, and Clara successfully directed the Doctor away from it. And why do we know the TARDIS must go bad at some point..?
3. I don't think we need to get too hung up on the fact that the Doctor chose that as a name for himself and must therefore have had a different name before. Isn't that the same as saying that Wolverine must have had a name before he chose that one for himself in X-Men? He did, it was Logan, and that's not really important at all.
4. When Clara says she was "born to save the Doctor" I don't think that means there has to have an instigator who had that idea for her. She just found herself being born over and over again throughout time and, as a result of her origin (the original Clara sacrificing herself) she always instinctively knew that she had to save the Doctor, even if she didn't understand what that meant until she met him each time.
5. They were very explicit that the GI died by stepping into the Doctor's timeline, whereas Clara lived.

The whole suggestion of John Hurt being an aged 8th Doctor is pretty much bs, as we now know that Gallifreyans don't age. Like, practically at all. Matt Smith has been the Doctor for 300 years (in his personal timestream) and looks the same as he did when he first started. I'd wager he ages at about the same rate as Jack Harkness, maybe a bit faster, which means John Hurt MUST be a separate regeneration.

The only options left are that he's the first incarnation, and the aging process is far quicker before the first regeneration (as, if you remember, Hartnell was basically an old man, but was maybe only 200-300 years old MAXIMUM). Or the 9th incarnation, after Paul McGann, and regenerated into a more traditional "older" form.

My money, personally, is going on the fact that he's the 9th incarnation, and commit suicide/forced his own regeneration as penance for his actions during the Time War, and realised that the universe was too "at risk" from his current form.

One thing I did notice, as well, was that the voice which said "Silence will fall" when the TARDIS exploded was rather similar to John Hurts...

Regarding River: I'd say that this episode wraps up the end of River's story. Going forward in time, she will only exist in The Library's computer; with no way to interact with the real universe. (Unless, of course someone really wants to use that version of her and writes a get out of jail card.) The character can still be used by the program from anywhere else on her timeline. (From the end of "Lets Kill Hitler" to before she leaves on her expedition to The Library.) We still haven't seen her learn The Doctor's real name (He didn't tell her at their wedding) or The Doctor's visit to give her the sonic screwdriver she had in The Library. So, The Name of The Doctor is the (likely) end of River Song's story, but she can still be used in future episodes. Personally I really want her to meet The Doctor's Daughter.

Introducing John Hurt as the cause of many, many spoof pictures that nearly made me spit tea on my laptop in laughter.

I thought part of the "tracks of his tears" speech declared that this was indeed the sum of ALL his days past and future (from his then current perspective). So in theory the Doctor (and Clara and the GI) just got a whole bunch of spoilers delivered to them.

In which case, with foresight, John Hurt could well be a future version which the Doctor (11) saw in the rip. Even if he forsook the promise he's still very clearly credited as the "Doctor" (that's where my brain starts hurting).

any outcome that wastes a regeneration would be "annoying" to be polite. because sooner or later they will run out of lives and have to think up a reason to give him more. and that day feels like shark jumping... i hope its either the 8th at the end of the time war, or something clever that no one expects.

Another question: The original riddle given to The Doctor said "At the fields of Tranzalore on the fall of The 11th..." but there was absolutely no reference to the fall of the 11th. So, how will this end up? Yes, technically he is still on Tranzalore and presumably will be on the 50th anniversary. But it's a question that needs to be asked.

River was linked to Clara through the conference call. Her being alive meant that Clara must still be alive too. That's all there was to it I think.

and "the G.I" is not the tardis. the tardis clearly cares about the doctor. thats just "silly"(again being nice)

Clarence...Clara....nope, I'm clutching at straws here.

'The Fall of the 11th'....maybe he'll regenerate here at a later date? Maybe this is where he 'falls' in the manner that the Tenth Doctor supposedly did when Davros pointed out the murderous nature of all his companions?

The only significance I can draw from the X-Men comparison is, that by naming himself Wolverine, Logan steps away from a past he'd rather forget and tries to escape from it. It appears the Doctor tried to do the same.

Bring on the Time War! If Smith and Tennant go back in, they could bring the Master out too! :)

Why did the TARDIS explode in series 5?

It is quite possible we have just found out the answer. The question has always been who could control the tardis. Omega? Theres been a lot of hints to him. The valeyard? Or the Doctor John Hurt.

One thing that has not been mentioned is the possibility that Hurt is ALL the Doctors. His darkside that has run though all regenerations.

I've got skid marks.

I can understand the idea that john Hurt's Doctor could come before William Hartnell, but to me the line 'He broke that promise' suggests that this new Doctor breaks a promise that he has made several times before I.e. x number of Doctors, and therefore must come later on

Just a thought or two about john hurts dr, he may well be an off shoot of the 8th dr born out of battle by the timelords to help in the time war, very much like the dr we all know an love but ruthless and without pity.if u think back to the episode dalek the dalek from the time war said the 9th doctor would make a good dalek,and proved the dr could be ruthless in that episode .mabe john hurt dr was made to think like a dalek as a last resort to win the time war but it went wrong and caused mass exstermination on both sides, so the true 8th dr regenerated into the 9th and banished john hurts dr into the dr's timeline and took his title of the dr from him

John Hurt's Doctor could also have somehow come between Patrick Troughton and Jon Pertwee.

An aged Eighth Doctor doesn't work for me either. Clara did see eleven incarnations, and the Eighth was supposedly one of them. He's appeared in other flashback montages as well, which wouldn't have happened if he was the incarnation that got 'disowned'.

I completely agree, my point is that the name Logan isn't relevant to anything, just as whatever the Doctor's actual name is probably is irrelevant too. The article seemed to suggest that it might have some significance. Fellow redhead there?

The crack will be gone. Clara fixed the timeline, so the Doctor didn't die at Trenzalore. not that time, anyway.

Good point!

The TARDIS fell to Trenzalore.

"We can't jump - but we can fall..."

Some really interesting theories to mull over here... One question still unanswered (for me at least) How do we know that the TARDIS will go bad at some point in the future? Where is this a reference from?

How about this for a mad idea.

There is only one time lord. There has only ever been one timelord...because time is...well...complicated - and timetravel is useful: so several (many) of you can exist all at the same time

If I was Moffat, I'd do that.

Do that.

The time war was the Doctor destroying the many incarnations of himself. Matt Smith is the one that got away.

That would be a twist and a half.

The crack disappeared, though, during TNoTD. (I think when Clara entered the timeline?)

And, given that she directed the Doctor to that TARDIS, is Clara a) aware or b) responsible?

Aha ok I see your point. I think now with all the build-up around his name whatever it actually is is going to disappoint, and that the real significance is on the name he chose.

Hmm interesting... That might explain to some degree why Clara and The Tardis didn't really 'get along' ...

River is Clara, but Clara is not River. In every Clara-split, she said she was born and lived out her life...seemingly waiting to run into The Doctor without being aware of it necessarily. Well, Melody Pond was born and has saved The Doctor countless times. Ergo, maybe River is a Clara-split. If you go back, the original child, before regenerating, had brown hair.

The woman in the shop? Sally Sparrow. At least, that's who I think it is.

Big question not yet (as far as I can tell) asked: why of all the doctors is Hurt doctor able to interact with Smith doctor and Clara?

That hints at some sort of specialness / unfinished (or unstarted) business.

And why did Clara faint? If she'd been tirelessly fixing all the timelines, why this moment to collapse in exhaustion?

PS: nice to see my earlier comments noted.

I've been mentioned/credited in a DenOfGeek article, my work here is done!

I'm not sure if it's been suggested but obviously Tennants doc was shot by a Dalek and should have regenerated but generated that 'twin' that went off with Rose. So that's one occasion where the Doctor should have regenerated and have a new incarnation bornn using up a life. However I doubt that's who Hurt is as a plot like that wouldn't make sense to people that don't remember the earlier Dalek episode.

And again, only slightly related but there was a plot in the New Adventures series of books that suggested Colin Bakers Doctor was murdered by McCoys Doctor, who wanted to be born. I can't remember who that ended but if the person the Doctor could become exists in his DNA then perhaps this is a potential Doctor, much like how I see the Valeyard.

It also absolutely won't be this but in the New Adventures books folk-law the Doctor (and all incarnations) is a reincarnated version of The Other, the third figure that helped shape the origins of the Time Lords with Omega and Rassilon. I think this was either Lungbarrow or The Dying Days.

I expect there's very little chance of that old plot getting dug up but there's another possibility for you there: that's not the Doctor, that's the Other. And I suppose that new Adventure references have cropped up before.....

I maintain that “The Fall of the Eleventh” isn’t an event, but a place. (The Tomb-TARDIS.)

3 people have the Dr's number and have called him, Rose, Martha and Donna. Rose is in another dimension, Martha could be a UNIT front, Donna will fry her brain if she remembers. So of the three I'd say Martha. Can't be Sally, she's gone to Hollywood :)

I'm still not sure why the TARDIS seemed to dislike Clara so much (i.e. locking her out, etc). I guess it would make sense to me, if it had been the fractured version of Clara traveling with the Doctor troughout 7b, and the TARDIS could somehow pick up on this - but she is supposed to be "normal", right?

Anyway, tons of loose ends and questions still around, and I really like that - makes me anticipate november even more.

Moffat threw the Jenny thing out to RTD as a "wouldn't it be cool" suggestion and was actually surprised when he saw the episode and she survived. He had no grand plan for her.

She was a woman in a shop, nothing more. She wrote it down wrong, Clara dialled it wrong, or she was just put through to the Doctor instead because that's the way it had to be.

It seems likely to me that Hurt is a missing 9th incarnation. But, that breaks one of the unspoken rules of the show, that every regeneration looks younger than the last almost as if the doctor is aging backward. So in keeping with that I would think he is the 1st. But I think the bigger picture is that Moff wants to attack the 13 regens for the 50th special. If we count hurt as a doctor we have 12, then add Tennant's regen into himself, the doctor would be out of regenerations. But even that breaks continuity because Smith's doctor was able to regenerate in the impossible astronaut.

I thought about that too, but then again if we had a companion with no long-term mystery that the TARDIS didn't like, would we have considered it as any more than a nice touch to the writing? Another red herring that everyone fell for, I think.

Not sure if it means anything, but: when the tardis lands on Trezalore its window cracks, we see this as the doctor gets out and picks at it. The "monument" tardis already on the planet has the same window crack. AND the promo art for the episode shows the doctor looking through a cracked pane of glass. Might mean something, might not- but noticed it either way.

Hurt is a future regeneration of one of the 11 Doctors that one of the 11 Doctors marooned on an alternate timeline. That's my guess. I'd also guess that the reason the First Doctor stole the TARDIS in the first place was to achieve that aim. However, as the 10th Doctor clearly has a prominent role in the anniversary special, perhaps it was he who originally dealt with Hurt's Doctor.

Suggests to me that the Trenzalore battle is next for the Doctor, and a focus of the 50th. Time to cheat death again?

Isn't it obvious who he is?

He's Khan.

In the Doctor Who novel' The Matrix' the Valeyard travels back to 1888 and becomes Jack the Ripper. Maybe this is Clarence, hidden away in a jail cell having been caught by Madame Vastra??

Rose did - Clara got the number from 'the girl in the shop' - Rose said that she was 'back working in the shop' in Journey's End xD

Didn't the GI say that he'd be known as other things - The Storm, The Valeyard, etc? - so JH is the Doctor's 8th body, but is not the DOCTOR doctor - he's the storm, or similar other name

I believe she just became another person at every point in time - guiding The Doctor and whatever.

However, what does River tell 10 in the library, to make him trust her? She must therefore know his name, or something of significant importance - maybe she tells him that rose will come back???? :D

Presumably the "Promise" The Doctor refers to the Hippocratic Oath to "Do No Harm", which would support the first theory that JH is the doctor involved in The Time War....

I just want to point out that the 12/13 regenerations a Timelord has was put in place by Timelord society (to limit power??) I found somewhere that said that a Timelord has 513...

Your focusing to much on the fact he choose the name The Doctor. in the episode The sound of drums, TENnant said the he picked the name as did The Master pick his. He choose his to help, where as The Master choose his to rule and they where both at the academy together as friends so he's in no way The Master. The Doctor now is the real doctor always has been but John Hurt's Doctor may be a future or time war Doctor is anyones guess at the moment. I want him to be an old version of 8 but Steven Moffat may have a trick up his sleeve.

I said that when it happened. Clever little bit of Moffat trickery.

I rewatched Ep.8 last night with my husband, a non-Whovian, who asked a lot of interesting questions about River Song. So we went back and watched her first appearance in "Silence in the Library."

Guys, it's all in there. The first time someone says, "I don't know where I am" is in that episode. And the little girl who is the Library's database is named CAL. Sound familiar? I think CAL is Clara, and River is in the Library, so she's now connected to Clara. And the Vashta Narada, the shadow beings in the library, are a non-corporeal predatory species that first begin to attain sentience in contact with the Library and the Doctor. Could they have evolved to become the Great Intelligence? I also don't think it's a coincidence that the Library's "flesh aspect" terminals and the roving base stations in "The Bells of Saint John" have similarities, particularly the rotating heads.

If these connections hold, this is one of the best cases of plotting I've ever seen. Moffat wrote "Silence in the Library," "The Bells of Saint John," and "The Name of the Doctor." Either he planned this entire sequence out from Silence in the Library on, or he backtracked magnificently and connected them in the most twisty, complicated plot arc ever.

I think it's a combination of both. I'm quite certain in the scene with Sylvester McCoy that she's wearing one of Ace's outfits, the exact same clothes.

Anyone else recall that in "Scream of the Shalka", the Great Intelligence was impersonating the 9th Doctor? Could that be significant?

And what aboutbthe Valeyard wanting to "inherit" the Doctor's remaining regenerations? Is it like organ transplants? Could that skew the count, too?

Not sure why that got a down arrow.

Absolutely agree. No other doctor has been shown at a different time in their life as older or younger, it would seem pointless to cast someone else as PM's older version, especially when, as you say, they've shown PM's image before. Clara clearly states that she's "never seen that one", regarding JH, Bit of a cop out if it was just an older PM. Not the Valeyard either, I think that name-drop was just a nice little reference to Who lore. JH is clearly wearing and close approximation to CE/PM clothing combination, which strongly indicates the "real" no. 9. Which I would love.

I guess we know what was in the Doctors room in the God Complex now!

The valeyard was an offshoot between 12 and 13th doctors regenerations, there was another offshoot between 4 and 5 called the watcher. Could every 4 regenerations cause an offshoot regeneration that incorporates the less desired attributes of the doctor? During a time war the time lords would have alot of uses for a darker side of the doctor. Besides didn't 10 say to the master when the time lords came back that he didn't witness the rise of the time child? (May have to double check this) could that be a new name a renegade regeneration take instead of the doctor?

I don't think CAL is the original Clara but one the Claras that broke off and saved the Doctor, that does seem like a neat explanation for Rivers last line of how she was still connected to Clara.

I'm sure I heard the doctor say Hurt was him before he became the doctor. So he's the version that killed the Time Lords in an attempt to kill the Daleks(maybe). And I've heard the doctor say before that he wasn't always so kind, I suspect we'll hear more about that soon. But Clara should have died, been torn apart and scattered throughout his life. It doesn't make sense that he can go in there and get her and not only is he okay, but her too. Still, I like Clara. I'm glad we'll see more of her. I was so sure she was going to turn out to be River. Ah well.

That's what I am thinking

Huh? We didn't see the TARDIS again after they entered the tomb, did we?

What? The crack was there in the present TARDIS and in the future one. Which time did Clara change the timeline? Because the Doctor is still supposed to die at Trenzalore, presumably, since this all took place after some battle. If the tomb was in memory of his death on Trenzalore in this episode, then how was it already there?

You couldn't arrive after you died and die, and it still be the same death.

My theory is that Clara is the daughter of Rose & Human D10 and in order to get through time and space, had to dimension crash all over existence and back. Since River is so integral to the Doctor, she and Clara share a 'spoilerish' history. Since D10 wasn't happy with leaving a 'born in blood' copy of himself, the TARDIS probably isn't happy to host this 'impossible child' aboard. However, I really wish Clara were Susan's Granma and her story is cyclical, as it would be great if Hurt is D0 and Hartnell is D1 looking after the family that D0 should never have had... and now my head hurts. Time for caffeine and a cold towel...


I'm glad the article briefly chimed in with a theory that coincides with the one me and my partner were thinking of. Where as most reckon John Hurt is a Time War era ‘renegade’ regeneration- we thought John Hurt is pre-William Hartnell era.

So… John Hurt’s incarnation did something so awful (or SOMETHING) that shortly after he regenerated into William Hartnell, taking on the ‘Doctor’ mantle as a redemptive step to be a better person. This way, there are still 11 regenerations as we’ve always know them, still 11 Doctors just as there have always been- therefore removing this retro-active continuity the Time War renegade version would introduce.

Everyone seems to have a pretty good idea of what happened in the Time War, spelling it out in the anniversary just doesn’t seem too exciting to me. Wouldn’t it make more sense from a story telling perspective for the anniversary episode to celebrate a mystery RIGHT from the start of the Doctor’s origins, rather than a Time War introduced in 2005 and repeatedly discussed since?

While reading this, I realized that the title of the episode might have been misleading... Perhaps it's not The Name of The Doctor, as in his real name, but it's (also?) The Name of "The Doctor" - i.e. who can and can't use it. Of course maybe everyone else figured this one out too.

Also, when Clara redirects Doctor #1 into the other TARDIS, then wouldn't that imply that she would be directing him _away_ from the Great Intelligence, not towards it?

The problem with him being related to what The Doctor did in the Time War is that we all know what The Doctor did in the Time War, he told us so how would keeping this regeneration a secret help that? I think this Doctor started the Time War, by order of the Time Lords!

Valeyard become jack the ripper aka duke of "CLARENCE"

It's great theorizing, but sadly sometimes a plot hole is just a plot hole. There are plenty of things still dangling from the start of season six, and some lore being re-written as suits the plot or story. IE: the Angels zapping people back in time, breaking people's necks, etc, as the story demands. The TARDIS exploding may never be revisited; and the Trenzalore riddle may just be that -along with who spoke "Silence will fall" in the TARDIS and oh... now you've got me started too! :) Anyway the conjecture between seasons has become part of the fun, though the theories are often better than the actual explanations later down the line.


Nice thought, but didn't the Fourth Doctor do that?

Hmm. Clarence.... Clara.... maybe she got a sex change..... or became a Time Lady and regenerated and became a man. Imagine that in a tight skirt... *insert vomit face here*

Hurt is Doctor 8.1, he never really existed for the most part. McGann (8th) died during the Time War and regenerated, Hurt then commits "the moment" (End of time) which kills the Time Lords and Dalaks alike. The only possible explanation would be he escaped during his regeneration via the Tardis as the a way to kill a Time Lord is burning the body while the regeneration is in process, it could be possible the Tardis shielded Hurt from the explosion all together thus Eccelston's incarnation is possible. The Time War is stuck in a time loop, it has to happen and no one can visit or escape it, but that theory gets thrown out the window if my theory is right. But, also it brings the point of the Hurt regeneration never possibly counted due to the Time Lock or because of his actions, after all Tennant's clone doesn't count as a Doctor even though he was generated. This would also help keep the current number order possible. It is also fair to point out that the last incarnation of the Doctor will be the Valeyard and we may see the Reapers come back due to a possibility the Doctors lifeline may count as a reality if he does bring Clara back, after all she is supposed to die. Just my theory and as usual I can be wrong.

Yes, that's exactly what I think.

No - just checked the end - normal sized TARDIS not seen again in the episode pretty much from the point the Doc notices the crack in the glass and says "Oops"

The Clara=CAL theory was a load of rubbish before, but actually the idea that CAL is one of the Claras is a possibility I think. Perhaps the 50th will be all the Doctors and Christmas will be a big last hurrah for River and reveal why she was told the Doctor's name and any connection to Clara?

Isn't she locked in a different universe now?

Realize that being inside the Doctor's timestream is really the perfect setting for a 50th Anniversary retrospective. The Doctor (Matt Smith) and Clara can go anywhere in the Doctor's history, relive bits of his past, and meddle in his future. A very clever setup.

The Other..... :O

Did you miss Time Clash when the 5th Doctor appeared as an older version of himself? The second Doctor had aged in the Two Doctors. A good explanation of this is when two Doctors meet the previous incarnations age due to the presence of the current incarnation.

So one thing I noticed in "Nightmare in Silver" when the Doctor is being taken over it is mention his neurons are in a hell of a state as he has had 10 complete over halls. I did check the number this on Friday. So if there is a missing Doctor would it not been he has had 11 over halls?

The 11th mentioned his past and future are in the time stream so it could be a future Doctor. The Valeyard was met by the 6th and is described as somewhere between his twelve and final incarnation making it sound like either his is an in between incarnation (like the Watcher) or the twelve Doctor turns bad before becoming the final Doctor.

The 11th did seem to know who is he indicating he is a previous Doctor however past Doctors have met future Doctors but they seem to loose a lot of memories of this events possible as the Time Lords alter his memory..

In the end there are a lot of possibilities here that the more I think of the more my head spins. My gut is saying he is a future Doctor who the Time Lords dragged into the Time war (like they pulled the Doctors together in the Three Doctors) and he was the one who destroyed the Daleks and Time Lords. Since the then current Doctor (8th or 9th) saw it he knows who he is and the Time Lords were no longer around to alter the Doctors memories.

I did miss that one actually. I just don't think that they would use another actor rather than using make-up on Paul McGann. I think the thing with the Two Doctors was just that they wanted Troughton in it, and he was obviously a lot older, but they just went with it anyway. It would be great if they could use some sort of explanation such as the one you gave, in order to get the older doctors in. Perhaps the first three have now, sadly, therefore been aged out of existence. I do wish they'd get Tom Baker back in some way, as unfortunately we won't have him forever. They don't have to be running around fighting stuff, after all.

Nice one. Like "the Doctors secret that he will take to his grave. It is discovered". Meaning the grave was discovered not the secret.

The explanation was given by the 10th Doctor thus explaining the issues of aging Doctors. Once again great writing.

As for the Two Doctors there is the whole series 6b theory that he did not regenerate at the end of the War Games but was sent on missions by the Time Lords to explain a lot of continuity issues with the Two and Five Doctors stories.

Hi Everyone. If these couple of questions have already been answered then I apologise, but what was the relevance of the letter to Clara regarding the conference call having a date of April 10th?? or is there probably no reason for this. As the finale was on the 18th May why was a date in April needed?

Also, did I miss a resolution to the missing dates in Clara's book 101 Places to See?

I like the idea that it was an older Clara who gave Clara the phone number, spread thought time making sure the Doctor is saved, by making sure her story starts..

I've really been betting the link between Clara and River goes back to Silence in the Library and Forest of the Dead. See - Silence, we're already half way there. Clearly, silence did not fall - yet. I'm betting the prophecy is linked to that episode, and it refers to the Vashda Nerada invading the library. When we see River in the library core - she is caring for children, one of which is CAL, Charlotte Abigail Lux. She is the living core of the computer - essentially the one who preserves everyone in those episodes. It would be possible that since River raises CAL, that if River can project out, CAL can too - that the origin of Clara is CAL. In some twisted way, it would make Clara River's - and by extension The Doctor's - daughter. There are other tips this may be true - especially when River mentions the link to Clara and still lingers.

Run you clever boy...all the Doctors were running, but Hurt wasn't. We know from story with The Family that the Doctor is worried about what he'll do if he stops running. Maybe that is what Hurt did. We know the Doctor did bad things in the Time War, but what if he started it. He was sick of constantly having to deal with the daleks, etc. and reacting and decided to take matters into his own hands by solving the problem.

consider that at the source, a time lord has 13 lives (they´ll probably do something to chage that when they´ll be in the 13th) so, if The Valeyard is the penultimate ¿what number has? exactly, the 12th ¿and who is the next doctor? exactly, the 12th. Given that Moffat is recovering many original characters (the alien cibermen (not he modify humans), the past doctors, the new design of the TARDIS...) and given that 11 knows all about the misterious doctor, to me, is valeyard

sorry because my bad english, i´m not english, i´m spanish

You know what?
I don't care.
The sooner this sort of rubbish is dropped the better.

He's Eccleston's Doctor Deffo, at the end of the time war everything gets mushed up and the Doctor only part changes from withnails buddy into a pompous northern killjoy party pooping Windbag.

Heres a thought: He forsook the name Doctor. So even if he's the real 9th incarnation of Who or the 0th or whatever, Smith is still the 11th Doctor. So Hurt could slot in anywhere.

Original Clara is our Clara. CAL might be one of her echoes, but she's not the origin.

In the Five Doctor's it's clearly stated that the Doctor only regenerated four times so I don't think it could be the real first Doctor (unless Moffat simply forgot, which is possible). In "School Reunion", the Doctor tell Sarah Jane that he's regenerate "half a dozen times" since they last met. RTD probably just forgot that they also met in "The Five Doctors" but this could be an excuse for Moffat to make an extra ninth Doctor (or not Doctor). We know that the Doctor stopped the Timelords destroying time by ending the war (the guess is, by destroying Gallifrey and Skaro). When the JH Doctor says "what I did, I did without choice, in the name of peace", it is extremely suggestive that it was this action of ending the Time War (with "the Moment [see "The End of Time"], I might add. A weapon that he could have gotten by giving up his name somehow?). All taken into account I think that John Hurt is the ninth incarnation.

In the End of Time the weapon is referred to as "The Moment". I feel more and more that John Hurt is the Doctor who battled the time war. In terms of how he lies he it either the 8th Doctor aged by the time war or a future Doctor that he recognizes as the 8th Doctor saw this Doctor.

There are two many references indicating the Doctor has regenerated 10 times. The last one being in "Nightmare in Silver" as it has mentioned the Doctors brain has been overhauled 10 times.

I smell a "INTRODUCING JOHN HURT AS ______" meme coming in the future :P

I think this is how we see 10 and Rose again. The ep ended with 11 and Clara in the time wound that touches every tear in his journeys. They first meet JH's doctor, and then on 23 Nov, they will run through another tear that will lead to 10, Rose whatever, and hijinks will ensue. Maybe JH Doctor will be explained and find peace. I also hope Susan comes back.

You wanna talk about dangling plotlines? How about Hartnell saying he will come back to Susan one day in 'Invasion of The Daleks'? The Doctor hates goodbyes, but doesn't his granddaughter deserve, at least, that dignity?

This is just what River asked for here, basically, tell me you'll see me again.

Wow, you've given that some thought! I don't buy it myself but who knows!

Just what I thought.

You missed the 2 most important questions:

Why did that last episode make no sense at all?


Why didn't more people notice?

I suspect some kind of alien technology that only a few of us are immune to.

You assume logic.

That's the flaw in whatever it was you were saying.

Yeah, I thought Clarence was Jack The Ripper too. Not sure what you mean by "Duke of Clarence", though?

Not anywhere as we've seen plenty of regens now.

Oh, no. I'm dying, slipping, falling... behind this counter... oh look I regenerated.

ah, the good old days.

Down with this sort of thing!

So Clara is Ace? Ah hmmm..., I don't think she is most of the companions (maybe some). She clearly says most Doctors don't hear her. We see the 1st and the 11th do clearly hear her. Maybe Ace yes, because it kind of looks like McCoy looks at her from the cliff face. The rest, not so much. She is a bit Ace-like in her tell it like it is manner.

And Churchill.

I'm really not buying this CAL = Clara thing. The revelation that CAL was an acronym in that episodes was itself one of the twists, and explained who her family were.

Possibly, but there are still holes. When does the Doctor give River his screwdriver with its Red setting? His current screwdriver needs to be destroyed so that he can upgrade (or whatever) to the next model, which he will then give to her so she can complete the timey wimey circle. The two look very different. I do not think this is the end of River quite yet.

I love how his screwdriver became mostly useless in these last two episodes.

Having now read some of the previous comments:

There ain't half some desperate theorising going on and everyone seems to have a separate take on what's happened so far.

"Bugger quality, continuity & logic, there's a mystery to be solved here chaps!"

We'll get a handful of clues, none of which really tie up properly once the secret is revealed and then we'll be given yet another layer of the pointless mystery onion that Doctor Who has become.

Most just wandered around a bit mostly until that bloody annoying 'oh look something's happening music' got introduced recently.

You make more sense than the show did, please can you go and run it?

Yup, I sort of tried to say a similar thing in the comments after the review. He could almost be a döppleganger. Possibly I think, an amalgamation of all the horrible things the Doctor has done or had his companions do. He could be a pure manifestation of the Doctor's guilt and pain which, of course, the Doctor would recognise right away...

Oh, I would love to see Martha back! I think The Doctor really could have fallen for her hard if she hadn't come right after Rose. The right woman in the wrong time. Good Thinking!

Um, when exactly did Clara "change history" in Asylum? All she did was erase all information on the Doctor from the Daleks' Cloud memory.

That's actually a pretty good shout, I can see that happening.

So Hurt's Doctor is time locked with the rest of Gallifrey, Skaro, etc., so . . .
I like this idea right here. He is time locked and therefore unseeable to Clara, but in the time wound, everything is visible for better or worse, and timelines will cross and uncross and they will still manage surprises propelling us into the 51st year! Ah, is it November yet? Oy!


Oh, beautiful!

Because Clara is scattered in the vortex, and River is a child of the TARDIS (and thus born in the vortex), that's how they're linked.

Oh right !! Totally forgot about this one, I agree with you ! ^^

The Doctor will give to a younger River his name in a later episode, knowing that she will have to whisper it in "The Name of The doctor" episode.

Wibbly Wobbly, a half dozen or so times? Maybe? Five or Seven? of Nine? N-E-Whey.. . .

It's impossible, as he is the one who "broke the promise". To break a promise, you can't be the first one. So he can only be between McGann & Eccleston.

Definitely ! ^^

Smith already was given 10 extra lives by River in Let's Kill Hitler.

Hi there, I was reading your post and love the ideas although there is one part that didn't ring true for me "I'm not aware it's ever been stated in the show that the Doctor ages visibly in one form before regenerating" - In series 3 (2007) 'The Sound of Drums' at one point The Master has the Doctor prisoner and uses his upgraded sonic screwdriver to age the Doctor by 100's of years rending him harmless (until the next episode 'Last of the Time Lords').

Sorry if I sound like I was being a rude know-it-all, not the case, I'm not a hardcore fan but really do love watching the show.

Wait a sec guys.. I think we have a winning theory here. Now forgive me for the poorly written, rambling comment but its 11:42PM and I'm on a phone with a ridiculous keypad. So you remember in the David Tennant episode where the Master returns? There was some kind of doorway with a fancy name that allowed young Time Lords to see into the Time Vortex. Perhaps The Doctor saw this John Hurt incarnation amd the horrifying thing that he did and then ran away? He did mention some are inspired some run away and some go insane so maybe this is why he's bee. "runni g his whole life." This leaves room fpr John Hurt to be an incarnation in between 8 and 9. He is not called "The Doctor" because he has forsaken the name. This makes the most sense to me and answers a few questions the series has recently posed. Also it may be why The Doctor chose his title in the first place. So terrified of the future he saw in the Vortex that he decided to live his life devoted to healing the universe. Just my two Great British Pennies anyway.

My betting ... McGanns doctor returns then goes and gets horrendously inebriated with grants great intelligence ... Doctor who spawns withnail and I ... I think so ...

He is the Master

i think there is a good argument for the Doctor being Rassilon or an other origional time lord. mostly because of the accsess to exotic time lord tech, mcoys Dr had in his possetion the hand of omega the device that created the eye of harmony for the time lords, he also just happend to have the last of the living metal from the war against the vampires. there were all sorts of hints dropped about him during his run.

this was covered in the novel lungbarrow which also explained why his grandaughter wasnt a timelord as well. the series has kind of ignored lungbarrow by having the doctor have love interests as in lungbarrow you find the timelords are created as adults in the genetic loom not born, except for rassilon and some other pre timelord galifreyians. but i still love this concept

The Dream Lord describes the Doctor sarcastically as "The Oncoming Storm", a name coined by his archenemies the Daleks, and first mentioned in the Seventh Doctor novel Love and War and subsequently on-screen in "The Parting of the Ways", where it was attributed to the Daleks.[3] He also says to the Doctor, "I bet you're a vegetarian!" in a butcher's shop and calls him "veggie", referring to The Two Doctors, in which the Sixth Doctor announced that he and Peri would eat a vegetarian diet from then on.[4] The Dream Lord also teases the Doctor's relationship with Elizabeth I. This began in "The Shakespeare Code" where Elizabeth I wished to behead the Doctor[5] and continued in The End of Time, which alluded to the possibility the two were married

end quote!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

While it has no actual effect on any of the theories here or anything; did anyone else notice that in speaking the Doctors name to open the 'tomb' and providing a way of getting around spilling it to the audience, River was a literal deus ex machina?

Well, here's my thoughts on the Big Issue currently under discussion. Apologies if I have any facts wrong, or missing; I am not a devout Whovian and have not checked out the Doctor's history etc. But...

'The Doctor' (that is, John Hurt's character, from now referenced as JH) is not the original nor a re-incarnation of The Doctor (Matt Smith's character, now MS). JH is MS's father. And The Master is MS's twin brother. JH is known on Gallifrey and within Time Lord fraternity as The Doctor (it's his profession!), a name MS stole for himself because it sounded 'good'.

JH believed it was possible to mate with another race and, against the warning of the Time Lord heirachy, went ahead with his experiment. (JH was ostracised from his children for his crime.) Hence, MS (and Master?) being half human. Humans have a tendency to do as they please, to break the rules. Ergo, MS decided to travel by borrowing a TARDIS and 'meddle' in the affairs of the universe, whether for good, bad or indifference. Prior to this occurence, it was noted by Time Lord heirachy that JH's experiment was flawed - MS and young Master didn't follow Time Lord protocol etc (though never a bad boy), the Master behaving out of control as was his whim. Rather than 'terminate' either, they opted for a further experiment, to watch over the good brother (MS) so as to SAVE HIM FROM HIMSELF. Hence Clara was 'born'.

Re-incarnatin would affect the way in which she can appear at any time and place that MS needs saving, so she is not a Time Lord per se - she is too human for that. However, Time Lord wizardry ensures that she 're-lives'. Also, if JH was involved again, does this make Clara his sister?

So, MS borrowed a TARDIS, Clara directing him as to which to take. She has since tried and failed to catch him to keep him safe, hence his reincarnations. But she'll 'save him' one day, won't she?

Has JH been banished to Trenzalore, to await the death of MS? Or, being a Time Lord, has he known, foreseen or otherwise been aware of 'this moment'? Is MS merely frightened of his past, unwilling to accept he is an experiment gone awry? Is Clara just waiting for the right moment to bring MS face-to-face with himself, his past? Could this cliff-hanging episode be just that right moment?

So, JH is not a 'missing' Doctor. PM was the Doctor at the time of the Time War and it is following this event that he regenerated into CE. There are also too many red herrings being thrown around by this cliff-hanging episode.

No doubt some of you will laugh at all of this, others may find something worth considering. But I do believe all is not as it seems. We not only do not know the real name of MS's Doctor, but we know absolutely nothing of his parents. Perhaps it is time to change that....

You're quite right, chief. Someone else pointed out there's an older version of the 5th Doctor in one story too, so I was wrong. Just too much Who to keep track of.

Not sure why that got two down arrows.

Clarence sounds a lot like Clara. Just sayin'

True, but that was not natural ageing. Neither was the Fifth Doctor's in the Time Crash minisode.

As I'm understanding it now, a Time Lord doesn't necessarily age physically as he gets older. However, he can choose to, if he so wishes. The First Doctor was an old man and probably aged himself a lot in order to look mature and distinguished (Ten commented on that in the Time Crash). The current Doctor, on the other hand, has lived for about 300 years now (making him possibly the longest-lived Doctor since the first) and has barely aged a day in all that time.

It's also possible that Time Lords can choose to appear younger - didn't River comment on how she was going to slowly de-age her appearance?

So ultimately, I think you're half right. They can age, but they don't have to.

I always wondered if the girl in the shop wasn't Sally Sparrow, given her history with The Doctor.

Another question i'm surprised hasn't been asked.. Trenzalore was first mentioned in this context : 'Silence will fall when the question is asked, on the fields of Trenzalore, at the fall of the eleventh'. Well, the eleventh hasn't fallen, and silence hasn't fallen, and the question was asked by The GI. So it seems (as well as with the whole exploding tardis thread), the Silence still have a role to play somewhere, because they were apparently trying to stop the doctor getting to Trenzalore, but nothing that happened there seemed to be related to them. Am i missing something?

incorrect River used several of her incarnations as seen on the show

Thanks for the replies :D

Remember, The First Doctor regenerated because of old age....his body had simply worn out and he needed the TARDIS to help him regenerate or at that time it was called a Rejuvenation. So, presumably Time Lords can and do age...

Of course having said all that.... The Doctor is the only Time Lord that exclusively just traveled non-stop in a TARDIS...the rest have been shown to be either career politicians or plain uninterested in the outside worlds. And the First Doctor was elderly when he stole or was stolen by the TARDIS...jumping back and forth in the Timestream would slow down your incremental aging..sensibly..

Just a few things I may be wrong about.

When the Doctor entered his own time stream, to save Clara, didn't he change his own time, removing Clara, to save her? I thought that was the point of him going into his own time stream, to remove her from splitting into a million pieces across time and space, and instead bring her out as one, original piece.

If this was the case, then the whole point of the TARDIS picking the Doctor, from the Doctor's Wife, still makes complete sense, as the Doctor would have removed Clara telling him to choose the TARDIS.

Plus, if the Doctor was in his own stream, why WOULDN'T he, being the Doctor, change it to suit himself? I'm more guessing he probably would have just fixed any changes caused by the GI and Clara.

Secondly, I think there's quite an important line or two at the end of the episode. The Doctor says that JH "broke" the promise of his name, which to me suggests JH cannot be a pre-Hartnell Doctor, unless JH was in fact the "Second" face of the Doctor, and Hartnell was the "Third".

The Doctor would have had to have taken up the promise of his chosen name for that promise to then be broken.

I think it fits reasonably well that JH will in some way be related to the Time War. We do know that one of the Fourth Doctor's missions is thought to be the "beginning" of the Time War, according to RTD in an interview. It would be reasonable to assume that the Time War has been the most defining event of NuWho, without any knowledge of it, AND of OldWho, if we take as "truth" that the Fourth Doctor participated in it way back when.

Therefore, JH having something to do with the Time War makes the most sense, to me at least.

The idea they pulled a FUTURE Doctor into the war is quite a good would go with Moffat trickery, meaning he wouldn't have to change past incarnations of the Doctor, while also giving an explanation for the fact that Matt's Doc knows who JH is.


But it's also been said that Timelords can live "forever, barring accidents", so that would kind of preclude them dying of old age.

It could be that it's only the first life that automatically ages. I mean, they have to be born and grow to adulthood, which would be kind of difficult if a baby didn't know to "turn on" ageing. :) And then once they've regenerated, it stops and ageing becomes optional.

thank you so much, I mean it. That was the only bit of that prophecy that I didn't think wasn't resolved

I was thinking what you were thinking when it came to "fall of the 11th" but then i saw someone else say that it was interesting that the Tardis fell to Trenzalore and didn't land

BUT....Matt Smith's Doctor entered his own timestream, so does that mean he NOW has at least "some" knowledge of his own future events? He said "everything here is me" so he could be able to look into his own future and know who John Hurt is and what he did? It's all Timey-Wimey and stuff....Love it!

I think my brain's gone wibbly...

When we first saw the back of Hurt's head and Clara asked who it was; didn't The Doctor say something like "it's me, that's the point, I'm the only one here"? Despite Clara also being there?
I'm calling it, Clara IS The Doctor.

I don't know. The Prequel? They could get in J.J. Abrams to produce it. He could call it Carry on TARDIS, tell the story of a sexy, rebellious young Time Lord with a penchant for fast cars, bar fights and hot women, and blow up Earth for the climax. That would reboot the franchise big time.

Clarence - a male name similar to Clara.

Could Hurt be a regeneration from an alternate timeline? - There's no precedence to suggest that regenerations are pre-determined but rather it's like vreating a character on The Sims by pressing the randomise button.

The Time War would surely have involved the creation/destruction of various timelines as in the excellent Year of Hell from Star Trek: Voyager.

The dead Tardis looked exactly like Eleven's Tardis, but if he was to die here because the GI entered his time stream, we would have two different Tardises, wouldn't we? The one in which the Doctor arrived and the "grave" one. And this would be a paradox (by the way, the GI would realize this, so they must have known they couldn't kill the Doctor at that point in time?). This would suggest there's still a battle for Eleven to fight here.

Not sure why that got two down arrows.

Too much lens flare would be involved.

I think this episode *may* have provided hints towards the TARDIS mystery. Something this review hasn't looked at is how The Question fits into the silence falling (as was said all throughout Series 6). Some of my friends treated that as Moffat just not thinking it through, but I wonder.

What if the phrase “Silence will fall,” always had multiple meanings? In Series 5, we assumed that it meant silence – the absence of sound, or anything else. In Series 6, we assumed it meant the Silence, that race which we learnt was a religious order, an aspect of the Question (which in turn suggests that there are other people who have a different opinion on the Question that we may yet meet. Perhaps it’s from them the Great Intelligence drew up his scheme). At the Series 6 finale we were told that it really meant the Doctor’s silence, his fall. But was that really all there was to it? What if the real meaning of the line was the first meaning, our original thought – silence, the absence of sound?

Stop and think about it for a moment. Now we’ve been inside the Doctor’s tomb, we know why the Question needed to not be answered – because it would open his tomb, and because inside his tomb was the power to effectively rewrite space and time, and let everything be destroyed. “The stars are going out,” was not a stray line. It was a very clear reference to the Series 4 finale, when Davros had a plan to destroy reality itself. The Timelords also planned to destroy the universe and ascend to a higher plane, and the Doctor stopped that plan too – twice. But with the power to interfere in the Doctor’s timeline and rewrite his every victory as a defeat – well, you could very easily rewrite the bits where he saves the universe and let silence fall. Silence, and the end of all things. Who would want that? Well, Davros and the Time Lords, for a start.

Why was the TARDIS drawn to this exact date and blown up? I’ve wondered before if this was a plot by the Silence to kill the Doctor – or to kill River – before his name could be revealed. After all, there was the line “Silence will fall.” But that voice never sounded like the Silence race. What if that voice meant what it did – that silence will fall? What if the Silence (religious order) aren’t actually the bad guys, but a different sort of good guys? What if they are actually trying to stop silence falling – stopping the universe being destroyed (again) by stopping people being able to interfere with the Doctor’s timeline. What if the person blowing up the TARDIS was instead one of the people trying to make silence fall? Because that’s what you could very easily do when the Question was asked. “The stars are going out.” The voice even sounded a bit like Davros. And Ten and Rose are back for the 50th. Coincidence?

Summary: Silence will fall when the question is asked could mean "universe ending by interfering with the Doctor's timeline to stop his victories" - does someone actually want silence to fall, who blew up the TARDIS originally, and could have interfered with the Doctor's grave? Either a (somehow survived) Davros, or the Time Lords (since we may be going in to the Time War in the 50th ...)

Tom Baker has offered to play the Master.

I say they should do it and explain the appearance duplication by having The Master escape the time lock by piggybacking the timeline of the only Time Lord outside the lock: The Doctor. Dr 4 would simply be the closest to the Master (imo; Tom even played Rasputin, in his early career), so that is why he would wear that face, and approximate demeanor.

Clara only saw 11 Drs. She mentioned that. The GI apparently was only able to corrupt 11 incarnations, otherwise Clara should have remembered the later ones. Unless, ofc, Clara-who-was-saved could not rememebr future incarnations because she was rooted in the timeline for hte 11th when he saved her.


If that was the fall (I thought abt this too), it was all a little too pat for me.

Huh? She used 10 regens, as Mr Caiveau said. She had regenned twice, leaving 10. She never regens again.

Not directly addressed, and Clara d/n mention it, so it was not the official answer. POSSIBLE, yes, but not resolved to the audience.

She wore a leather spiked jacket at some point? I d/n recall Ace ever wearing anything other than her patch-covered jacket.

11 states that the JH incarnation "broke that promise", not that he preceded it.

McGann deserves a spot. He was good, tho the movie was not.

I am sorely hoping the green wonder fails soon, knocking him back to something less omnipotent. He can't make a move without his Wand of Wonder now.

11 mentions he is the 11th in "The Lodger". Others were likely Morbius.

Churchill in a wig? "That HUGE woman in the shop gave me this number. . "

I believe it was an erroneous assumption.

The Master even mentions to Dr 1 (in "The Five Doctors") that they went to school together .

Presumably she saved him from imminent defeat at the virtual hands of a hidden Great Intelligence (Exeunt, pursued by a Clara).

Calling The Moment a "weapon" is a big assumption. "The Doctor still possesses the Moment" does NOT make of it a weapon, tho it may have worked out that way.

Quite possibly, TM is simply that point of NOW serving as the "high point" of time, so that it gives advantage to whoever has it, but is not a weapon. As the Dr. is the best at improvising, he would naturally be good (the best, even) at holding on to it.

TM may be an extension of the very moment the Eye of Harmony collapses. As it becomes a black hole, it cannot afterwards be manipulated, so making changes to affect how it behaves AS a black hole would require manipulating it as it collapsed. We see the EoH is indeed kept at that exact moment in "Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS".

He sort of fired the first (mostly missed) shot.

If Tom had had his way, he would have burst out into song whilst holding those wires, tho. Hmm. . . Dalek musical numbers. . They do sort of glide into and out of scenes. . .

"Scream" is non-canonical, tho they could have cannibalized it for ideas.

Regens can obviously be transferred, as we saw w/River. At least, the regen energy can.

You are incorrect in saying "every regeneration looks younger than the last".

6 was older than 5, 7 was considerably older than 6, 9 was a tad older than 8. 3 MAY have been older than 2, depending on how you judge appearances.

2 was younger than 1 mainly because 1 was so old he died of it.

I can't help thinking that the Zygons or whatever it is that's been revealed as the aliens in the 50th, have been thrown out as a red herring.
They seem to have no connection to Trenzalore, The Time War or The Great Intelligence and from this far off I just can't see how they're not going to be just too much to add into the 50th Anniversary mix. There's just too much going on already.

Episode was quite pat and far less clever than it thought it was, imo. Since when was the GI a sacrifice play desperado? What's w/all the rhymes for no reason? Suspect that was just rubbish.

Still, a decent ep, mostly.

Loved the BIG TARDIS.

Tho they were only clips, overjoyed at seeing the classic Drs. again! There was life before 9!

Strax finally grew a pair, it seems. Must have been from spending time in Glasgow.

Whispermen. . Silence. . A pattern?

So a real admission of marriage to River. And actions thereafter taken which may have some cringing if they have never been fond of Prof. Song. Still not sure if that was fun or not.

Glad Mr. Grant was back; he should have been The Master, with those performances. I hope he forms the foundation of the Valeyard, actually, as he integrated w/the timestream. He *did* already play the Dr. in a certain Moffat story. . .

As to JH. . GREAT actor, and NOT SQUEAKY BEHIND THE EARS YOUNG. Thank God, even tho he will only be a 1 shot, most likely, as Smith is not leaving (again, Thank God, as Matt is awesome).

As to the upcoming plot. I never trust Moffat to do the sensible thing, nowadays; sound and fury and let's see if the answers even line up.

If Tennant and Rose are back in the 50th, my bet is BadWolf Bay Dr. 10 hand-clone and Rose. Hopefully Rose will have ceased teething by then. Pity she had those dental implants in, as BIllie was massively hot until she did.

there was a minisode where river comes into the tardis and starts flirting with the doctor, its then that a future 11th comes in and says they are in the wrong tardis and rivers says they are going to the place where he sees her last and the doctors share a sad look, so i think by the time TNoTD she was already saved they just didnt make a big deal of it because....well its happened a long time ago

Just a thought. . Clara's memories came back. She read the Dr's name in the book.

Too pat. Tho not past Moffat to be pat.

We will never know the name. Moffat is smart enough to realize it is verboten to speak it to the audience.

She's hardly a god.

So the GI's plan to screw up 8's timeline included becoming a character named Withnail, and rewriting 8 into a (similarly) out of work actor named Marwood? Devious.

I noticed, but all the pointless rhyming may have obfuscated it for many folks.

The Dr. is not the Master, anyway. Well established.

Good point abt the Valeyard, tho. No remorse in that one.

The Moment is likely just the point of best advantage over all time. Not something one commits, but that one is in, or has hold of. He who holds the moment can always one-up/trump you, rewriting the moment as you adapt to it. That The Dr. still possessed The Moment likely just means no one could undo what he did, as he could block any attempts to rewrite it.

The TARDIS is not the GI. Period. Not sure how ppl are getting this mistaken idea.

We have already seen her parents: not 10 and Rose.

Er, OK...

the 513 (or w/e) was a one-off Davies thing, possibly a joke, and has
been shot dn in canon. 13 is it unless measures are taken to extend it.

Here's a theory that makes sense: Doctor Hurt is the 'real' Doctor. And Doctor Who is somebody who took his name. Everyone we've ever known as 'The Doctor' is not in fact The Doctor at all.

I am no expert at all, but isn't there History on this story arc of the Doctors secrets, or the doctors past? i.e. back in the late 80s it was hinted that The Doctor might have been The Other before he took the name of The Doctor, and this was meant to explain what he had always been running from. These were referred to as the doctors "secrets", and in the latest episode he said "this is my secret". Now doing a little reading (famous last words) wasn't this concept of the Doctors past, The Other etc touched on in the Three doctors and the Five doctors? Is it just me, or does it seem very Moffattish to have the next special, with 3 Doctors, also hark back to the story of the Doctors secrets. Therefore, is John Hurt The Other, pre-The Doctor, and this is what he has been running from all his life. He has been running since Doctor v1, so I don't think this is time war related.

Also, C.E as the 9th had a fairly major breakdown when he confessed what he did in the time wars. This is no big secret anymore, as he told Rose, the Dalek and anyone else in ear shot what he did in the time war.

This 50th Anniversary goes right back to the origins of the Doctor. Makes sense doesn't it? A massive milestone, lets look at something which goes back to the foundation of the whole series.

I rekon we will see more vintage footage, with Clara and the 11th Doc dropped in.

I thought Clarence knew the co-ordinates because The Whispermen were speaking to him. They were setting a trap for The Doctor and friends to fall into, right?

One possibility touched upon previously in the classic series was the concept of The Watcher, a sort of link between 4 & 5, which was similar to but not exactly like Cho-Je in Planet of Spiders. Apologies if this has already been mentioned but I haven't had a chance to read all the previous comments yet

Not sure why the top two got three down arrow and the third one got two down arrows.

"The Doctor lives his life in darker hues day upon day and he will have
other names before the end. Storm, The Beast, The Valeyard" - "The Beast" is an interesting one because isn't that the name of the creature in the 'Impossible planet' and 'The Satan Pit" ?

In the Deadly Assassin Tom Baker's Doctor stated he had regenerated six times since leaving the academy, making him the Seventh Doctor & Hartnell's the Fourth.

correct me if i am wrong, but dont the Doctor and River travel in opposite directions in time?

So basically, every time the doctor sees her, he is older, but she is a little bit younger. that seemed to be the way it was going with the ponds. (remember the first time he kissed her was the last time she would ever kiss him).

she died in the library, yet we went on to see LOADS of her with the ponds. then all of a sudden she is dead again?
there must be a reason that we saw "ghost river" and not simply normal river.

could there be a reason that "normal river" could not be there? would it mean crossing her own timeline? does this have something to do with clara?

Yep, she regenerated twice on screen ! And her appearance as River Song is her final one. So as she got 12 lives before, 12 - 2 = 10. She was Melody Pond, then Mel, then River.

I read a news article somewhere that said Hurt is playing the "real" Ninth Doctor and that Smith and Tennant don't want to accept him at first. Also, we already knew that he chose that name for himself because in series 3 of the reboot The Master says that they each chose their own name when they graduated from the Time Lord Academy

I think this is where Claras mystery comes in - "I said he was me. I didn’t say he was The Doctor. My name, my real name. That is not the point. The name I chose is The Doctor. The name you choose is like a promise you make. He’s the one who broke the promise. He is my secret…” The name you choose is referring to Claras name choice - where does Oswald come from?

Going further back in time, to the start of Gallifrey, and to some long rumors... What about the theory of the Doctor being a reincarnation of "The Other" ?

Maybe it was the Doctor that the Xenomorphs used as their hosts in Alien :3 Wait... What?

Maybe it was the Doctor that the Xenomorphs used as their hosts in Alien :3 Wait... What? Lol

Great article! Loved it. One thing that comes to mind is that most Time Lords we have seen over the years have had a nom de guerre: The Master, The Meddling Monk, even The Buccaneer (I think? Referred to in The Doctor's Wife episode). So it seems that many Time Lords choose their name - maybe even DESERVE that name by their actions?

Ah, but they do age naturally. We don't know very much about it at all, but we do know they are born as humans are. We did see a crib after all, didn't we? The one the Doctor offers to Amy and Rory for newly-born Melody Pond.

In "The Wedding of River Song," Amy remarks to the Doctor that he is aging, but they are not. He replied that time kept moving for him, but not for everyone else.

Question: Where exactly in either of the big 'Clara montages' do Eccleston and McGann's Doctor's feature? I can see all the others, but neither of them...

Did anybody else notice that in the WIFI episode, that the book Arti was reading was written by Amelia Williams?

Clarence was described as being having 'the blood of ``14 women on his hands', given the date, it could refer to Jack the Ripper, and in a comic the valleyard WAS Jack the Ripper.

John Hurt's Doctor can't be the Master. As Matt Smith's Doctor says, "it's all me in here." It is clear that the Doctor recognized JH as his secret. This doesn't exclude the possibility that JH is a future incarnation. And if Clara appears to recognize all the Doctors up to Matt's, but not future Doctors, then perhaps JH is a future incarnation.

The Time Lords had their own mystics. They had prophecies. The Doctor knows something of his "fate," if we could call it that. If there were some dark prophecy about him that hasn't yet come to pass, he could conceivably deduce that the JH Doctor is some future self that became the embodiment of that prophecy. If that's the case, then he will do something more terrible than even what he had done in the Time War. Alternatively, JH was a secret incarnation after McGann and before Eccleston, but if Clara could see Hurt while in the Doctor's time stream/scar thing, why didn't she recognized him like she did the others?

The two echoes of Clara we've met so far have not hinted at any conscious awareness of a their nature or their purpose beyond the worries of their present lives. So the force that is the original Clara's will predestines her echoes to save the Doctor when all hope is lost.

And since we're talking about the breadth and width of the Doctor's life here, the Great Intelligence will surely turn up again in future episodes, doomed to fail thanks to Clara. And we already know how it dies, just as we knew how River died and then we enjoyed all her adventures with the Doctor and her parents that came afterward. Isn't time travel just marvelous?

Dammit!! Just noticed that Doctor 10 WAS in NOTD - but it was a scene from the Library when he was with Donna so maybe the Rose theory still holds...just!

Just watched it again. Much as I enjoyed it, there are sadly so many plot holes that it started to spoil it for me. But if anyone can answer any of these questions then I'd be happy to have my enjoyment of the episode restored a bit!

1. I've moved this one to the top because it's the most glaring: WHY DOES RIVER OPEN THE DOCTOR'S TOMB? Apparently opening it is so bad that the Doctor won't say his own name even to save the lives of his four friends, but River opens the doors (silently...) without any hint of regret - "thankfully the TARDIS can still hear me." Yeah, the universe is really THANKFUL, River, now that its very existence is in jeopardy! Luckily, all the suggestions that entering the tomb is ACTUALLY dangerous will soon evaporate once everyone gets inside and Moffatt fails to give any clue as to why it was supposed to be so terrible.

2. How do Jenny, Vastra and Strax get to Trenzalor? Sure, the Whispermen (whoever they are) take them there, but has the GI always been able to travel through time and space, taking people with him?

3. If you're going to say, time and again, that the Doctor must never go to Trenzalor and that then, when he gets there, what he really MUST NEVER DO is interact with his own timeline, you can't then have him fairly nonchalantly go there anyway and hop into his own timeline with hardly a second thought. When you diffuse the tension you build with your own story writing so casually, people stop getting tense the next time.

4. Are we to believe, then, that contrary to River's insistence that if Clara enters the Doctor's timeline she'll be shattered into a million pieces and be lost forever as herself, what actually happens is that once she has successfully undone each of the GI's mean tricks to poison the Doctor's timeline she is conveniently reconstituted and dumped in some sort of Doctor's Timeline Hinterland, able to say "Job done" and be rescued by Doctor 11, who apparently also knows the way to the Hinterland?

5. What does it matter that River is dead when she's a time traveller? I mean, why summon a dead echo of River to the conference call rather than catch up with her from some time when she was alive, given that time is apparently no object?

6. Maybe I'm missing something, but how, exactly, did Clara ever save the Doctor (with the exception of during this series)? We've never seen her before! And even in the sequences where we saw her superimposed with previous Doctors, she always seemed to be watching him in peril from a distance, shouting his name but unable to reach him or do anything to help.

7. Clara did not blow into this world on a leaf, FFS. I know in what sense it's meant, and it was sort of poetic and sweet the first time, but they bang on about it as if it literally happened, to the extent that, when Clara is lost in the Doctor's Timeline Hinterland, the Doctor sends her the self-same leaf (apparently reclaimed after being sacrificed in The Rings Of Akawhatever) and that mystically brings her around.

8. Getting picky but now but I'm on a roll. It's lucky that Vastra's soporific remained potent on the paper of her letter after 120-odd years (though not potent enough to penetrate the envelope). And that she knows of a postal service that will deliver mail on an exact day so far in the future. And that Clara's wards aren't curious enough to ask about a handwritten, ageing envelope that arrived in the post. And that Clara opened it on the right day. But then again, why on earth did it matter that the letter was delivered on the right day since the Conference Call is apparently time-agnostic anyway? I can't get too hung up on this one, though, as the same argument could be used against Back To The Future 2, and I won't hear ANY argument against ANY of the Back To The Future movies.

9. Why are you still reading this? I've rambled on for FAR too long!

Jack The Ripper was never caught, though? The same thought crossed my mind. Also, JtR isn't usually believed to have killed as many as 14 women, although there's no way for us to know so that wouldn't be a killer argument against.

Erm, yes, I think everyone did. They even published the whole first chapter on the Who website. I hoped it might end up being significant...

Ecclestone's definitely there (VERY briefly). Not sure about McGann.

Yeah, but if it's a bit of a whistle-stop tour through the Doctor's history, as this episode set it up to be, throwing a Zygon or two in there wouldn't be difficult.


This is really interesting, I think I'll need to read it again. But The Silence didn't seem much like good guys of any hue - they seemed pretty bent on doing a lot of killing, often needlessly. I always assumed they were called The Silence because their entire purpose was to ensure that 'silence fell' so the question couldn't be answered, so it's not exactly a double meaning, just one meaning extrapolated from the other.

That said, given that The Silence seemed so determine that the question not be answered, and that we now know the answering of the question was a bad thing for the universe, not just for them, maybe their motive was benevolent in at least some way. Then again, the opening of the Doctor's tomb (the result of silence not falling) didn't actually seem to be such a bad thing at all. It only became bad because the GI decided to hop into the Doctor's timeline once he was inside. Did The Silence know that was going to happen too?

As literally as it's ever possible to be with a metaphor. But the question I can't get past is: Why did she open the tomb at all? The Doctor was so determined that it was a catastrophic thing to do that he wouldn't say his own name even to save his friends' lives, but River didn't seem too bothered about it at all.

It's my belief that Eccleston and Hurt are BOTH #9. Hurt being an incarnation that made the wrong choice at the Bad Wolf event (a fixed point in time) and Rose's 'Bad Wolf reset' rebooted this whole incarnation of The Doctor.(Think about it, would the heart of the Tardis allow The Doctor to not live up to his name?)
Basically this means we've only seen the adventures of Eccleston, but the Hurt Doctor's events happened in parallel, making the wrong choice at the end.
This would explain E's look of confusion and disorientation when we first see him. Theoretically he should have all the memories of what happened but Bad Wolf caused them to be locked away...

Just a thought, though...

Huge question. How was Clara able to read 'History of the Time War' if she's not a timelord? I would assume the book would be written in Gallifreyan.

Didn't see a mention anywhere of a possible 8.5 DR. If you look at his costume, it seems to be a merger of 8 and 9s wardrobe, the leather coat and velvet, etc.. Anyone else see any promise in this?

The misdirection here is everyone thinks that the Hurt Doctor causes what happened on Trenzalore, but Trenzalore is at the end of The Doctor's life, and the Hurt Doctor is 'known' by the Smith Doctor, which he wouldn't be, if H was the one that caused the devastation at The Doctors last stand at the end of his timeline

I expect the 50th Anniversary will take place at least in part within the Doctor's timeline, since the "scar" winked out while he was talking to Clara about John Hurt. So how did they get out of it? Perhaps they have to travel through it and find a way out, thus encountering many past Doctors. Maybe?

Also what about the crack in the TARDIS window? The crack in the giant TARDIS window matches the crack in the window after the Doctor crash lands on Trenzalore. Would he not have fixed the crack eventually? Why is it still there? Did the TARDIS never leave Trenzalore?

I haven't gotten to watch the older Doctor Who's, I started with the ninth, and if I remember correctly, when Sara Jane was re-introduced at the school episode, the Doctor said the he has regenerated many times since he last saw her. So a missing regeneration or two is plausible, and very likely, but at the same time it could be from before he chose the name of the Doctor.

The Tardis translated it..

I have a question that has been bothering me... Clara read the book on the Time War. I would assume that it was written in Gallifrey (since it is The Doctor's book after all) and the Tardis doesn't translate Gallifreyan, does that make Clara part time lord somehow? River can read it and she is only part as well. I have a feeling that Clara is the daughter of The Doctor and River, that he is completely unaware of. Remember...spoilers. Please weigh in on this...

The Tardis doesn't translate Gallifreyan.

But if there is another regeneration... then Matt Smith isn't the Eleventh anymore, Tennant is. And he's coming back for the 50th.

I voted down this one because you seem to be stuck in a loop, and I like that sort of thing.

If 10 and Rose are coming back why can't they be the his human version that's trapped in an alternate reality with Rose? Maybe Hurt's this human version of the Doctor.
11 seemed to know all about Hurt's character, but he seemed condescending rather than remorseful, so I don't think Hurt is going to be an unknown past incarnation of the Doctor.
My thought is that Hurt is going to be a Time Lord who had the title of the Doctor but when he did whatever he did he lost the title or had the title taken away. So Hurt could be a completely different entity.
Or he could be Susan's dad.

Just a thought about the 50th anniversary episode... David Tennant is with Rose in the alternative reality so wouldn't that indicate that in the episode the two realities will combine in some way? So rather than a 'time' movement the episode will have a 'space' movement?

Been wondering about who gave clara the number: couldn't have been river because clara didn't recognise her at the beginning, clara would also have recognised another version of herself, so it's got to be rose?We already knew hhhshe u sed tof work in a shop

He said "half a dozen", which presumably was intended to mean Fourth-to-Tenth (although Sarah did actually meet the Fifth Doctor in The Five Doctors). Though it can easily be taken colloquially too, and of course if the Doctor was keeping another regeneration secret than he would have lied about it.

It was a red herring, she was no one. Clara finds the Doctor always, there's no other influence in that.

Not sure why the top two got three down arrows and the third one got two down arrows, but I know why the fourth one got one down arrow (with thanks to Mark Latture).

The woman in the shop definately Rose, she has said that line before, "best help line in the universe". Is river over? the answer is no, she knows the name of the doctor and hasnt recieved the screwdriver yet, was even mentioned that she made him tell her. Ive got the sinking supicion she is a wife driven mad and the whole thing she was behind. John hurt, its been quoted by hurt himself he is playing the true 9th doctor as a regeneration that he forgot (dumb idea in my opinion). The greater intelligence is gone and im left thinking it wasnt very intelligent. everything is pointing to the time war, and even the mention of the valiard got me excited, i was so hoping he would be playing the evil future doctor (kinda like the dream lord)

When exactly, though? Is that him staring at a star? I wasn't sure if that was him or Tennant, heh.

John Hurt is "The Doctor", could it be a hereditary title in some way i.e. could he be the Doctor's Father?
Then "Doctor" could be a title which comes attached with some duties and responsibilities, a "Promise", which he did not live up to?
And our Doctor ran away from him...?

IS there any significance to Clara visiting all the past Doctors whilst they happened to be on Gallifrey? Even the 2nd and 3rd were in The Death Zone from the Five Doctors.

Since we never saw McGann regenerate into Eccleston, and the series (despite demands from some fans) has never gone there, it provides a logical opening for sneaking in a "failed" or "hidden" regeneration. Since Nine, Ten and Eleven have been pretty open about talking about killing off the Time Lords, though, I don't see it having to do with the Time War - the Hurt Doctor (I like how that sounds!) would have had to have done something really awful to outscore that little event. I don't see it being the Valeyard as Clara only seems able to visit the first 11 Doctors (she makes no reference of having met the 12th, or the 27th, for that matter, assuming the 13-life limit no longer applies).

I have stopped racking my brain on the whole Hurt Doctor (mainly because that's what he 'should be called'.....a "HURT DOCTOR"). One part of the continuity that has be puzzled is River's point of view. She apparently knows about the Library and the events that took place, 'he left me there like a book upon a shelf'. SO, how did Vastra contact her for the meeting in the first place. Did she tap into the archives of the Library? Or, was River easy to contact because technically she is semi-conscious, sort of, kind of. Having TL DNA might enable that. The Doctor being able to see and touch her, was quite mind boggling, but anything is possible with him. Even that shocked River, that he was able to see and hear her the whole time. I re-watched "Silence in the Library/Forest of the dead to find any clues. Nothing. Just the fact that the message that was sent by River for the Doctor to meet her there was passed down to Tennant and ignored by the future Doctor. OH, here is something else overlooked in the continuity of this tale. The Sonic Screwdriver given to Prof. Song by a future Doctor looked completely different from ANY one we have seen on screen. It had the ability to change to a 'red' setting also. So, with that in mind, why is the Tomb of the Doctor in the same Console Room as Smith's and not of some future one we haven't seen yet? Tisk tisk Moffat for not thinking of that. So, put these thoughts in your head along with the Hurting my Head Doctor, the Valyard, and any other theories you might have come up on your own. Ouch ouch ouch!!!! See you in November my friends.

John Hurt has not claimed that he is playing the Ninth Doctor, all he has said is that he is "part of the Doctor". The forgotten Doctor rumour is clearly false from The Name of the Doctor itself; he clearly hasn't been forgotten, just hidden. The woman in the shop is no one; Clara's mystery has been solved, and she had nothing to do with it.

An interesting thought, you may be onto something! Perhaps a Time Lord timestream is more conducive to events on their home planet, allowing for a Gallifrey-heavy 50th without undoing the Time War.

Is the River Song story over?

I don't think so, and here's why:

Remember whenRiver asks the doctor how she can still be there if her mental link is broken with Clara, and he asks "How?" and she says "spoilers?"
Well I think I figured out how.
Remember in an early scene when the Doctor hooks Clara up to the Tardis' telepathic circuit to get the coordinates for Trenzalore. I just realized that at that point, Clara was unknowingly already mentally linked with River from the conference call, sooooooo...
River was still mentally linked to the Tardis' telepathic circuits even though the connection with Clara was broken.
I also remember that when Steven Moffat was talking about The Name of the Doctor, he was asked about a love triangle, and he said something like there would be a triangle but not the one we were thinking.

Maybe the "love" triangle was the three "love" interests of the Doctor - River, the Tardis, Clara - mentally linked.

What do you think?

The way I like to think of it is that the TARDIS, as a time traveller itself, does not have any future console rooms that can be seen until they are created (even if, as The Doctor's Wife says, she does have them stored away in preparation). So the last TARDIS, and maybe the last Doctor to an extent, will always be the current one. Makes in-universe and out-of-universe developments a lot easier to reconcile with each other.

What about the alternate 10th who got 'stranded' in another dimension with Rose ? He was human and could age so maybe John Hurt is an older version of that Doctor ?

That's Benedict Cumberbatch. Can't replace him.

I've totally convinced myself (although clearly nobody else) that this is the case. She's hidden herself like 10 and The Master did in series 3. Somebody ask her the time, then you'll see.

Oh wait, Sylvester McCoy wasn't on Gallifrey. Still, bit of a weird coincidence...

Clarifying myself (hopefullt):

Actually River said something like how can she still be there if Clara is dead, which I thought at first was reassuring the Doctor that Clara was still alive, but since the doctor seems to not know the answer, I have inferred in the above that River was asking how she could be there, if the mental link was broken.
Another aspect of this theory is that River comments that she's glad the Tardis still listens to her when she opens the door of the tomb with the Doctor's name. Perhaps the Tardis listens because she is still linked to the telepathic circuit.

Wow. That's a thought!

I'd always assumed that he only aged normally as Hartnell and the ageing process was eliminated when he turned into Troughton. As far as I'm aware, we've done away with the theory that Time Lords reproduce asexually, so I doubt he was birthed as an old man. I'd assume he aged like a human, or perhaps at a slower rate, before the eternal youth thing kicked in with his second incarnation.

Sorry. Wasn't clear enough. River knows The Doctor's real name; how and when she learns it just hasn't been revealed to the audience. While the scene in the Library only implies that she knows, it is confirmed in The Name of the Doctor. Remember, she is the one to give the TARDIS the password (The Doctor's real name) to access the tomb. Of course, she did that through the telepathic circuit connection, so neither the audience or the characters in the story learn it.

I've thought of such as well. . If there was a Gallifreyan race before the TLs existed (and not just one being to begin with, resulting in a Gallifreyan race afterwards), such would likely have been a coup attempted in early Gallifreyan history, with a small group vying for ultimate power, but being checked. Rassilon certainly would have been the sort to try for it!

If there was only 1 being originally, that would mean the TLs (and all Gallifreyans) were splinters of the same being.

I always leaned towards a compromise having been born of a Gallifreyan race jointly developing time travel, and wanting ultimate power individually, but not willing to war over it. Thus, all TLs are linked via the Matrix (yes, it is called that: from "The Deadly Assassin"), and sharing a certain level of consciousness. Witness 9's telling Rose that he would know "in here" (indicating his head) if other TLs still existed, and 4's comment on the Master having similar perspectives to the Dr on things: "He's a Time Lord! In many ways we have the SAME mind."

WARNING: long personal-take spiel follows! ;)

I personally entertain the theory that each incarnation of any given TL is an alt universe "understudy" version that gets to hit the limelight when the predecessor takes his or her final bow. The version that takes over would not have died under those circumstances, so is radically different in looks and manner. Each steps in and assimilates to the common memories of the dominant timeline, after a period of adjustment, but they are actually separate beings. The advantage to this being TLs can access the perceptions and abilities of the others (even those who never come to be) and make more informed decisions as they see from multiple perspectives as to what outcomes of actions COULD be, and they are also NOT slaves to a determined, linear timeline (they can actually make changes by taking bits from various timelines). They would literally not perceive time as linear as they would see sideways into alternate timestreams. It would indeed look like a big ball of. wibbley. . Well, you get the idea. It would explain how they can instinctively spot fixed points, and "facts" like Jack was after Rose brought him back.

OFC, this would mean becoming a TL effectively silences (in a sense, murders) all those infinite other versions except for 12 who are allowed to live by the TL regenerative technique. Presumably they are all welded into one being at the Untempered Schism. In "The Girl Who Waited", the Dr. says of alt-Amy "She isn't real!" The TLs may feel much the same of their other, overshadowed forms, with only a few feeling guilt. Perhaps that is the real reason the Dr. ran away and the Master became obsessed with survival, dominating others, and shrinking people.

Also, by popping all of Gallifrey into the Time Lock, thus removing the planet and race from history, The Dr. actually IS all of the race, in a way. He alone has all the power of what they were!

I suspect that it is for this reason that TARDIS consoles require multiple sets of hands to operate smoothly: no one being was supposed to be allowed easy access to such power (since a TARDIS allows one to directly change cause and effect outcomes).

All that meddling by the various renegade TLs must have caused a lot of migraines for the rest of the race; the various "involved" TLs probably generated a lot of fixed points and potential paradoxes in the Web of Time that the other TLs had to unweave or compensate for!

No. She can easily come back (and probably will) in younger days, prior to the Library. Despite what she once said, she does not meet him in opposite directions, but simply out of order.

Also, she presumably will be there for Dr 12, unless she only ever really knew Dr 11. Her reaction to 10 suggests she knew a few of them, tho possibly focused on 11.

The 1st Dr. aged. It was pretty much why he died.

Those were the Whisper Men.

Likely just Moff riffing on the same idea. He reuses ideas a lot.

Or one who comes after, but the Dr. knows of him. The Dr. knows of the Valeyard, and he not only has not existed yet, but isn't even a proper incarnation, just a distillation of the darkness in later incarnations. As others suggest, he might be a non-regen; an alt version that has been eclipsed yet remains dormant.

Out of order: not always opposite, despite what she said in "Impossible Astronaut".

Likely just because color shots were easier to get from the archival footage on those.

4 and 5 were not on Gallifrey, either, and at least one shot of 1 was elsewhere as well.

Not a bad idea, you may be right ! :)

JH's Dr. looks, acts, and dresses nothing like we would expect an aged 10 to.

Likely it is the 10 clone and post-"Bad Wolf Bay" Rose w/him for the 50th Tennant/Piper teamup.

She did get a whiff of spilled Encyclopedia Gallifreya right before that.

Was Tennant for sure.

McGann I d/n see at all.

TLs that stay home usually have regular names, even if they have titles: Rassillon; "Omega" (assuming that is not a title, but he WAS renegade at the points we see him); "Chancellor Borusa" (later President); "Chancellor Goth"; "Castellan Spandrell"; Runcible (Rrrruuun-cibllle!!!). Never been explored, that detail.

Good point. Of course, the one I forgot was Romana (as opposed to "the sidekick"!). Wish she'd make a comeback - as Mary Tamm, Lalla Ward or even a new actress.
Actually, I wish the Timelords in general could be brought back into the show. It always seemed so much more interesting when there was a whole planet of the interfering busybodies to pop up when least expected and put their two penn'orth in! The whole "last of his species" thing is a bit clichéd, and depressing. I want Dr. Who to be about going off and having wild adventures.

No mention of the Clara is Cal (the computer child from the Library) theory? Born. to "save" the Doctor? The same play on words with "save" that they used in the library. Creepier yet, look at a side by side comparison of Cal and Clara. They resemble each other so much it borders on the strange.

What if the link between River and Clara is mother and daughter. A daughter River never told the Doctor, part time Lord, part child of the Tardis. She doesn't necessarily regenerate, but River was able to plant her where she needed to be reborn, in time, to put her in the position to save the Doctor each time. And she's able to do so as part of the biggest database in the universe, in the biggest library, which would of courses have an extensive record of the Doctor and his history for River to use as reference.

Good questions, but useless speculations. Even if you thought you got it all right, it can be rewritten. First off the Doctor already "died" as far as the universe is concerned. This tomb could be a result of that, not his true death. Of course the question then is how did what appears to be the TARDIS get there? Maybe it is just that. Junk made to appear like the TARDIS. But again this is pointless speculation on my point. Even if I guess 100% correct, they just opened up the door for the Doctor's whole timeline to be rewritten anyway needed. I was surprised they mention the Valyard as that has always been viewed as a "mistake" that the show wanted to distance itself from. But now it doesn't matter. Past and future parts of the Doctor's timeline were just rewritten. We are left to assume that it is still fundamentally the same, as the universe is still here, and so are his friends. But that is just that, an assumption.

What about Jenny, the 10th's 'daughter' ? She revived at the end of the episode "The Doctor's Daughter", and blasted of in a stolen spaceship but her whereabouts have been unknown since then.

Not sure why that got a down arrow.

4 was from Invasion of Time. 5 was from Arc of Infinity. Both on Gallifrey (or at least the TARDIS on Gallifrey). Agree about using the colour shots for 2 but what's the excuse for 3?

Erm... did you miss the bit where we found out exactly who Clara is?

Is "the promise" the promise never to go back on your own timeline? If so, then John Hurt is what happened as a result of a future Doctor stepping into the glowing-pillar-of-DNA-thing at Trenzalore, trying to alter his own personal history and ending up a hardened, battered old fellow who didn't regenerate at the right times. So, a sort of parallel Doctor then. If this were the case, it would mean a great big whoosh through this whole history when Matt Smith goes in and tries to put things right again - perfect for an anniversary special.

1. River could say the Doctor's name (or think it, if you like) without anyone hearing it. Hearing it, we are lead to believe, would have awful repercussions. Just because we don't know what they are yet doesn't mean they don't exist.

2. Who cares?

3. Hardly a second thought? He only did it, despite his friends' protestations, to save Clara as she saved him. As he only went to Trenzalore in order to help his friends who he owes so much to; the episode was clear that he takes these debts very seriously.

4. Yes, we are. The Doctor and Clara always find each other; that was kind of the whole point of the episode. The Doctor is able to save Clara as she has always saved him.

5. Well as an alive River would probably have just been spirited off the Trenzalore with the others, it's probably just as well. The conference call was there for advice not action, so there's no reason why post-Library River was a bad choice. After all, she knows most about the Doctor. And as her "life" is a constant dream, it's probably easier to get hold of her.

6. She saved the Doctor by putting his timeline right. That's what she's there for. Use your imagination.

7. The leaf doesn't bring her round, it guides her to the Doctor. The Doctor could send her anything from his timestream, and the leaf signifies the connection between them. (He could have even sent her the type of leaf it was in The Bells of Saint John if he wanted, but let's not go into that...)

8. Who says it was delivered by postal service? Presumably the Doctor told her the date it was for Clara when they left The Crimson Horror, so she had to make sure the letter did not arrive before Clara had met her. Vastra can do a lot of things; she's a Silurian. Clara had a few too many things to worry about to question the intricacies of letter sending, so there was no appropriate time for it to be explained to the viewer either. It simply doesn't matter.

Maybe "the Reaper"? Hence why we don't know him as an incarnation of the Doctor - the stress of having to choose to do something so horrifying to himself that he regenerated into JH, did the gruesome deed and then regenerated again in to CE? The age could be attributed perhaps to like a part of his personality being split off and tortured by what he had to do, taking it's toll physically.

Did anybody else notice that the crack made on the TARDIS when the doctor turned off the anti-grav was in the same place as a crack on the giant tomb TARDIS?

Since I only started watching at Eccleston's first episode, all this makes me feel like I can't truly appreciate DW at all without watching the entire show from Hartnell onward.

Eccleston was in the last sequence as one of the Doctors dashing past Clara. It seems that the person who bumps into Clara just before the Second Doctor in the opening sequence is intended to be McGann, though you wouldn't know it really. He did get short shrift.

There doesn't need to be a "Clara Prime" if all of her pieces spread through time still have a connection to River Song. River Song could be doing all the coordinating of the many Clara's.

I'm still waiting to find out why Clara's mother died on the same date as when Number Nine arrived on Earth. Anyone want to take a gander on that one?

We actually have proof the doctor doesn't age in at least some forms. Hartnell we have seen as a child in the End of Time. However, the 11th has aged close to 200 years and still looks the same.

Rule 1. The doctor lies. Rule 2 so do I :)

This has been my theory all along! :D

My guess is that the grave dates of both Clara and her mother were subtle hints to her importance to the Doctor throughout his travels, and nothing more than that.

The 12 regeneration limit never applied after the Five Doctors when the master was offered a new regeneration cycle.

I believe regeneration is to do now more with regeneration energy. A Time Lord can control and channel. It is therefore possible for the Doctor to have more than 12 regenerations. I presume the limit was based on how much energy an average Time Lord can produce. Since the Doctor has travelled in time more than anyone else perhaps he now has more energy then anyone else.

It also explains why in the Two Doctors The second Doctor was using a Console room that the Fourth used.

As they approach the 50th anniversary they have started to make a lot of use of the classic series so I can see what you mean.

I just realised, it should really have read "Introducing John Hurt as Doctor Who". That would have reiterated the mystery around him, linked it back to the question, separated him from those we know as "the Doctor", made a meta-textual nod to the credited name of earlier years, and riled overly-pedantic fans all in one. A trick was missed there.

this is a longshot but remember that doctor david tennant found in victorian london. the episode was "the next doctor" .

I have a new theory of who the John Hurt Doctor is. I'm not sure if I believe it as much as the 9th Doctor one but here it goes. What if he is actually the older version of the David Tennant Doctor that went to live with Rose in season 4? He can't regenerate so he can grow old and that would explain the old appearance. He also destroyed all of the Daleks which is definitely not in the name of the Doctor. Next, Tennant and Billie Piper are starring in the 50th anniversary which is connected to all of the things I previously said. It is just a theory but I wanted to put it out there.

I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere But all the Other Doctors are shown in their normal surroundings. This Doctor however is Shown Standing on a destroyed Planet in the Middle of the Graveyard. I don't Think he is the "Time war" Doctor but Maybe "The Beast" Destroyer of Worlds.

While it makes it clear in the earlier part of the episode that the
Doctor doesn't know his own future, by the time he confronts John Hurt's
Doctor, he's stepped into the scar of his own timeline. Remember this
is, as he says it, " . . . the scar tissue of my journey through the
universe. My path through time and space. From Gallifray to
Trenzalore." And he stepped right into it. It fractured Clara, but we
all know the Doctor is made of sterner stuff. Could it have granted him
a knowledge and understanding of his entire timeline from birth to
death, including what would be the future to him? If so, then John Hurt
could be the future Doctor as the Valeyard (or even something stranger)
and he would still know entirely what he did and why.

madame vatsra kills jack the ripper

in HIDE,why WAS the TARDIS reluctant for clara to enter ?when she was quite clearly trying to save the doctor

The Doctor and the Master once reminised about growing up together and choosing names, so I doubt they are one and the same. John Hurt's 'Doctor' could well be Paul McGann's regeneration having survived the Time War but at a cost - and who knows how long the war lasted. We know the Doctor fought and that is something that went against every fibre of his being.

At last he grew old and tired and regenerated into Eccleston's Doctor, a darker shade of the Time Lord we've never seen before, but war will do that.

Matt Smith's Doctor knows Hurt's character and what he did, so I doubt that he is a future regeneration.

One question I would like answered is where did the Doctor get his extra regenerations? Was it the White Guardians. Were the extra lives embodied in the mummy figure that stalked Doctor 5 through one story line eventually merging with him.


When The Doctor disabled the anti-gravs and crashed his TARDIS on Trenzalore, he looked at the glass and it was cracked in a very familiar shape...

Is it possible that this event caused the cracks in time from Series 5? Something to ponder I suppose.

What if... Hurt's doctor is an alternate version of the doctor created by the meddling of the Great Intelligence. Or the Doctor's dad.. Dr Senior. Or the Doctor's twin brother.. Dr Two. Or everyone's favourite companion, Mel, who tap-danced into the time stream, got old and grew a beard?

Also, she keeps being reborn and reborn... or at least reflections of her. So in a way, each time she is "born" is to save the Doctor. I'm guessing she isn't them in that way and so doesn't remember all those lives, but that would be cool, as it would make her as old as the Doctor since she exists everywhere in his timeline.

And I'm guessing at least one incarnation of her is a Gallifreyan if not an actual Timelord (which I recall is only a high caste of Gallifreyan who's looked into the Schism, not every member of that species), since she was at the repair shop. It's not as if she just materializes in the other examples of her. She exists naturally in the time and place the Doctor "will" be, and thus would simply "happen" to be there and help him without even really realizing why.

I'd kind of wished they'd do something REALLY daring with her character and literally make her a series of one-off companions always played by the same actress -- at least for a while -- instead of him finding her so quickly.

Another Clara gave it to her, probably.

That's a good call, it could definitely be the "broken" Doctor of the reality in which the Great Intelligence tormented him, and drove him to a level of desperation he'd never really known as "our" Doctor. Eleven could know about him if he'd jumped into his own timeline, as it is his history from birth to death -- who knows what he may have seen.

By that same token, even though Eleven might not know his future selves BEFORE he jumped into the scar, by the time he's traversed it and found Clara, he might have some new knowledge about his future destiny.

They're the previous incarnations of Morbius!

Perhaps this is another item to add to the list: At the end, Clara distinctly says she saw all of the doctors, and Matt Smith was the 11th. Since she entered the doctor's timestream, she should have seen all of the future doctors (beyond the 11th) as well. This and the fact that the ruined TARDIS interior looks the same as the latest interior seems to imply that Matt Smith is the last Doctor, forever.

He was never caught by officials, but if it was Strax and co that captured him we wouldn't historically know about that. Plus,I don't think Clarence was Jack the Ripper, it's just a reference, and perhaps they knew more than we do about Jack the Ripper? I just think it's likely that they'd explain who Clarence is and it'd have something to do with the storyline otherwise it'd make little sense. Plus, it'd explain the perpetual visits to Victorian London.

I'm late to the party but only now watched the Finale.

I for one alway's suspected the doctor to be Rassilon. Ever since the episode "Remembrance of the Daleks".

Here the doctor slips up with stating 'And didn't we have trouble with the prototype...' talking about the hand of rassilon.

Since he changed it fast to 'they' after ace asked about the 'we' he might have sliped up a bit there.

Only Omega and Rassilon are supposed do have workded on the Device.

Also that the device listens to him is suspecius too.

But than we have Timothy Dalton as Rassilon the President in "The End of time" witch would cnotradict this idea and he would be stuck outside of time.

Than again it was never explained where this rassilon came from.

It would explain quite nicely why The Doctor had to change his name if he would be Rassilon.

One thing that doesn't appear to have been considered in the article was one of the tennant ones.. I think it was the last one.

In it there was a flashback to Gallifrey when they were children, and at that point it mentioned that the Doctor chose his name there, and the Master chose his and I remember the Doctor saying something about the fact that the Master chose the name because he was mad, and sought absolute power; then the whole plot about the signal from within the time lock was sent out to Master.

So as far as I am concerned.. Hurt's Doctor cannot be prior to Hartnell!

There was the whole scene about them looking into the void and stuff.

It's the most mind-boggling cliffhanger I've ever seen... and yes, November is much too long of a wait.

Interesting theory. Not one I've heard before. Only thing I can't get is why he'd then be in The Doctor's own time-stream. I'd rather suspect it can't be a clone or copy version.

I don't think they really even get started explaining who The Doctor is until the Third Doctor. Good luck though if you want to start with Hartnell, there are a lot of episodes between the First Doctor and the Eleventh. =)

The crack also bares a vague resemblance to the crack in "space and time" that served as such an important plot point in series 5, especially in the center line on the right(relative to the viewer as they face the door). It's established that the explosion of the TARDIS in the Big Bang causes the crack but nothing tells us why he TARDIS exploded. Whats to say the paradox of the TARDIS crossing its own timeline with all of the power of a dying star behind it didnt throw the crack through the TARDIS' timeline in some sort of temporal linking causing it to reach the heart of the younger TARDIS leading to the explosion later in that season

Nicely written article, but I have a few things I would like to rebut, or throw out there myself.

First, let me clear up the number of regenerations theory regarding Hurt. In The Five Doctors, the 1st Doctor asks the 5th, which regeneration he was, to which the 5th replies "Ahh, fourth!" And the first exclaims "Ah, so there are five of me now, goodness."

So the count is correct at least up to the 8th going to the 9th.

Another potential possibility in regards to Hurt that wasn't mentioned, was that he was neither fully McGanns Doctor, nor Ecclestons, but him at a kind of halfway point in his regeneration, suspended there temporarily until the after effect of a time bomb went off near him.

Although I do personally think that The Valeyard is a high possibility. And I rather liked the idea that it was McGanns Doctor, aged, as each body can die of old age, to kick in the process of regeneration, although I feel it would be a bit of a kick in the teeth for poor McGann to have not been called in to reprieve his own role.

The Valeyard does seem a strong possibility though, as we know Matt Smith regenerates, and the Valeyard was the Doctor, towards the end of his life. I loved that you made that quote, when you mentioned this... I was hoping however, you would have added the other part of that quote.

It goes "The Valeyard is the Doctor somewhere between his 12th and 13th, final bodies."

As for the ideas about Clara, here is another one to consider.

He mentioned his grand daughter to her. She is the only person he has made ANY comment to in regards, specifically, to Susan, this entire new Doctor Who run since 2005. He has alluded to family, but not to Susan herself.

She was a Time Lord too, who is not to say that during the Time War, she had caught up with the Doctor again, and together with her Grand Father, helped him stop the catastrophe, he thinking her sacrificed, when in reality, she had managed to avoid it via a Chameleon Arch.

She grows up as Clara, and then the rest of the events happen as we have seen. After awaking, she has her state to restored as it was before the Arch was used to save her...restoring Susan.

Which leads me to your statement about the Time War... you are slightly incorrect when you say that is something that has only been in the series since 2005, that is not at all correct.

The Doctor has been referencing the Time War since the 3rd Doctor, in Dalek episodes, and he was often sent back to Skaro to try and change events by the Time Lords.

In fact, it was one of those times, as the 4th Doctor that pissed the Daleks off enough so as to start the Time War.

The Doctor can't be the Master, as they have both referenced child-hood friendships together in many past episodes.

They were friends at the Academy, until they had a differing of opinions.

I liked the ideas about the Great Intelligence and the TARDIS... in established canon, the type 102 TARDIS is an actual humanoid TARDIS, the Daughter of the Doctors actual TARDIS in fact. How people get in and out of a humanoid TARDIS, I am unaware.

So maybe Clara is potentially the child of the TARDIS, Compassion (Compassion was the humanoid TARDIS's name).

I really loved the suggestion that Clarence may have been somehow tied in as Hurts doctor.

And don't forget, in the nights leading up to The Next Doctor, they did make out David Morrissey was the Doctor... throwing us a bit of a curve ball...

I don't think that'll ever get addressed properly. And it's frustrating, because we shouldn't be the ones to make the stories work.

im not certain that his secret has to do with the time war or at least not the part that would seem obvious(commiting double genocide...ish) it seems obvious that it should but... thats not a secret. everyone knows that The Doctor sacrificed both races using The Moment, not some nameless timelord. i could be wrong, after all, he did mention fighting in the front lines and fighting wars isn't really something the Doctor does, but again , its no SECRET that he fought in the time war. he tells several people about that. which only serves to enhance the mystery: what did the doctor do that was so bad he considers it worse than fighting an arocity-filled war and commiting double genocide...ish?

this one could admittedly have some holes: what if he was born during the time war, grew up (as John Hurt) experiencing it, hated it, regressed it in a regeneration into Hartnell (without choice for the sake of HIS OWN peace and sanity, against his code of "never walking away", The Doctor wouldn't have run away for his own sake), stole a Tardis to run away from it (to, idk, Earth maybe?), and ends up starting the whole thing anyway. His regression/regeneration into Harnell makes him believe his real name is the big secret and that he was ultimately running from fear of the untempered schism and the strict code of the the timelords, but upon entering his own timestream (breaking the regression) he remembers that his real BIG SECRET is what was connected to his real name(john hurt) and the fact that he ran away for his own sake which a Doctor would never do.

Did the old series ever explain who Omega was? Because he's the only Time Lord to find true immortality, and I think in the Sarah Jane Adventures or whatever the limit on the Doctor's incarnations was indicated to no longer matter. Maybe he becomes Omega, the Last Time Lord.

quick question here.... um didnt River act surprised when she met Donna? why? she didnt know what donna did (or was going to do) being the doctor-donna and all ...... why ? did i miss something?

Anyone notice that Clarence is a Jack the Ripper-style murderer, and Jack the Ripper was one of the Valeyard's aliases. Any connection?

There was a Time Lord, a very long time ago, who was so evil he put every badguy we've seen on the show to shame. He went through his full set of regenerations, doing Really Bad Things, and it was only in his last life that he started feeling remorse. He decided on a new name, and somehow obtained a full new set of regenerations. When he began the new set, it marked his choice to be good and noble.

"The Doctor" came about when John Hurt's Time Lord regenerated into Hartnell's new Time Lord and started trying to do some good for the universe. Every so often, though, some unpleasant reminders of his past evil pop up - such as the Dream Lord or the Valeyard - he's always going to carry some of that evil within him.

Okay, so it's another crazy idea to add to the list, but I like it because it could fit in with what we've seen. The First Doctor was the first of his new lives of doing good. There have been 11 Doctors so far - 11 lives of him calling himself that and trying to be a good guy. Any time the number of remaining regenerations has been mentioned, it has referred to the new set that started with Hartnell. We haven't seen or heard of the Doctor's past lives (as far as we know) because he's been trying his damnedest to avoid them. He takes on companions because they help him ensure that he's still a good guy - he's not regressing back. I could go on and on trying to justify this - it's just one way to fit in a secret past with the character we know.

If The Doctor doesn't ever die, our Universe would be full (physically) with Doctor Who's body and so on. The only escapes would be: Either he does his most "living days" in another dimension, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, or whichever dimension(s) is (are) that, where he could be infinite, either he outlives the Universe, "the world" ends and he lives by himself alone a lot of time (which is very improbable, with all these memories, to ever want to stay alone). So, the best scenario would be that he is actually living outside our Universe's dimensions, eventually watching it, etc. Then his real name would be some seventh or whatever 'nth dimension(s) name, which just can't be actually known in our fourth, seventh, or whichsoever dimensions we live in. Also, him outliving the Universe (in The Rings of Akhaten's episode), would make him something out of the Universe's (/Multiverse's ?...) limits, and, while "Uni-verse" stands for "one verse [spoken]", which stands for creation by spoken verse, and while it is used quite enough throughout the Doctor Who's story, the best scenario would be him being some "being" living with gods/being godlike/being a god/or anything alike.

The name which is above our 'nth dimensions world would explain why he has so many names in our world. Then, the only way to "find the name of the doctor" would be to try to describe the idea behind the name, while you anyway can't pronounce it, unless you're a "time lord" or something. Yet, suggesting the idea(s) behind his name(s) would do for humans or whoever is (still) limited (altough humans might be capable of overcoming their limits in this matter, somehow, as is shown by Rose Taylor, etc, which "looked into the Tardis" or did something alike).

Great day everyone!...

see I have a theory on who clara really is. I believe that clara and river are linked due to the fact that clara is really the little girl whom the library was built for its the only explanation of how river and clara are linked. we have seen river at the library and die with tenant when the echo was saved. we than see river the echo in the name of the doctor we yet still have to see the doctor send her to her death. the day he gives her his sonic screw driver so where is that ep?

John Hurt is Matt Smith's Doctor's next reincarnation, also the Valeyard, and every other doctor thrown into one. The end of the anniversary will be his current companion figuring everything out and beating the Valeyard in a court case. David Tennant's Doctor and Rose Tyler come into the story at about mid-point and tell Matt Smith's Doctor the two words which will bring the Valeyard down. And those two words are Bad Wolf. Also, it will end with The Doctor's current companion dying and reincarnating herself, thus revealing that SHE is the The Doctor in disguise and has been all along. Also, the TARDIS is John Hurt's Doctor and the other way round.

My theory at the moment is that Clara IS THE TARDIS. The Time Lady Clara inviting the First Doctor on board the right TARDIS might just be a hologram projected by the TARDIS herself, meaning that one of Clara's echoes splintered in the Doctor's timeline might be the TARDIS herself. Just a good theory for fanfic, of course, but Who knows?

"The Shop"... go back to mofats first River Song episode/ The Silence of the Library... The Shop ... at the exit from the library is a store called "The Shop"

River backed up in the mainframe of the library adopted CAL...a version of here's where it gets all timey-whimmy...

We know River Song, like the Doctor, Lies... and given we don't know how many times she regenerates before we are introduced to her as River Song having been Amy's friend Melody, the little Clara looking girl in the impossible astronaught siuit, baby with Amy, ...since Clara is ripped into a million/billion parts spread across the Dr's time line... why couldn't Clara/CAL be an earlier regeneration....born to her human parents Rory and Amy Pond because she had to be...also born to her other human parents Ellie and Dave Ravenwood/Oswald creating a paradox as Clara because she has to to cover her own tracks... hence the Tardis not being overly fond of her initially as she is a paradox of herself... also, we never saw Rivers Body and although the Dr sees Clara growing up there are many names and relatives who link back to "The Silence of the Library" Since the Dr can forget and entire regeneration of a past life someone could potentially manipulate his memory to remember things he's never tracking down Clara... someone, like perhaps an evil off-shoot of himself trapped in an alternate universe with Rose Tyler...Enter David Tennant's bio-crysis self 3/4 human-1/4 time lord clone...could he be the Valeyard and a pre JH or the time wars Dr and Dr Who?

OMG... the Movie Dr was 1/2 human...what if he was the David Tennant Dr regenerated as Dr??? a defibrillator killed that Dr but it revived Matt Smiths Dr... hmmmmmmm... I'm liking the idea he stole the Tardis from himself... and Clara changed the past putting him in the wrong/right tardis... I need more coffee... my head hurts

LOL.... the same way she Saved 4022 other people...

That day came and went with Smith in a Mini that was posted about a year ago where River runs into the "wrong" TARDIS and meets Matt Smith in a Black Tux but is followed in by Matt Smith in a white Tux...conversation insues... My thoughts are Clara is River regenerated before she became Melody... as we don't know when or really where she Dies in the impossible astronaut story episodes where the small girl regenerates... They didn't show her turn into Melody did they... And Clara could easily slip in as an earlier version of River as she wouldn't know River yet...think on that...

and CAL is definately Clara whom River has adopted by the end of the episode she's in the Library mainframe in... so she effectively raised and influanced the echo of herself...making her the Dr's adopted Daughter and wife...there's your messed up love triangle in a Douglas Adams sort of "Deep thought" way what you are saying is although the answer to Life, the universe, and everything may be 42...the Dr's name is the real Question.... i.e. ∂³∑x² = 42.... Kewl!!!

Fit's with my thoughts that follow along the lines of the Book a few decades ago that made the Dr out to be a reincarnation of "The Other" of the Triumvirate that started the time lords on their path to eventual ultimate corruption making the Doctor have to Time Lock them.... these cracks we keep seeing are his mental shields breaking down and manifestations of his former self who is working to right the wrong that resulted in the banishment of Omega...

River's connection to Clara is simple; One of the Clara splinters is the girl in the Library Computer. Easy-Peasy.

Well, scientifically, if he's traveling at or above the speed of light or even through wormholes, he wouldn't age nearly as much. Probably if he stayed in one place for a while he might show signs of aging, but as Mark said, he's traveled far more than any other Time Lord we've met.

She did look an awful lot like Clara.

I wonder if Clara is Cal from the Library that Ten and Donna went to when we were first introduced to River Song. It would explain the link that River mentioned since she was 'saved' by Cal (who kind of looks like a young Clara). Also, at the end Cal states, "aren't I a clever girl" while River call the Doctor "that impossible man" - sounds like clever boy and impossible girl, right? And then River reads a bed time story to the children from her Tardis journal but there are three beds instead of two (because there were two fictional children added to the world). Could Cal have heard the stories of the Doctor and decided to reach out and help? Are the Doctor and River going to be meeting in the right order for once?

Note, though, that Clarence gave 'discovered' space-time coordinates, not just space coordinates. Wouldn't this mean the coordinates of his death, unless they were chosen specifically by GI? I also got the impression that the crack healed when the Doctor entered his time-stream to save Clara, though that might just have been the glow effect (but if it wasn't then that crack would have to stay there a loong time). But if that WAS the crack healing, then that really implies that the grave was because of the GI's trap, which is really confusing. But then, one can just say that it's all because of the Doctor's timeline collapsing from his entering his timestream, which is sure to have consequences in the coming episodes.

Timelords were born by Loom back on Gallifrey. To houses sort of like Harry Potter houses....anyway...They could be loomed as older adults if needed or children.

Clarence seems, pretty obviously to me, the masculine of Clara. Clara is always the same beautiful actress. I'm no judge, but was Clarence beautiful?

Trenzalore, in an anagram generator, creates many tantalizing options: Rent or zero; zen or later; LEARNT ZERO?

oops, that first was meant to be Rent or zeal

I have a theory about Tennant and Rose Tyler appearing in the 50th actually. Rather than them being from behind the 11th, they're parallel to him. They're the ones stranded in the parallel universe, with a TARDIS of their own (courtesy of 10: there's a deleted scene which some consider canon in which 10 gives his clone a chunk of TARDIS to grow his own), and either they've fallen over the barrier again, or 11 has pulled them through for backup, or...something.

I think the most plausible notion regarding John Hurt is that he's the Doctor that ended the Time War...indeed, perhaps a possible plotline is that Hurt is trying to undo his decision to burn the whole of the Time War (in a moment like that, there are two possible destinies, but only one shall come to pass), and it's down to Smith and Tennant and the gang to set him on the path that must be taken. Whether he's the 8th and broken as postulated above, or a separate regeneration altogether, I have no idea.

Wouldn't the Clara echo which directed the First Doctor to the Tardis have had to be a Time Lady?

That can't be right though because we know that river's original body died, because we saw her regenerate when she was a kid (assuming that was even her first regeneration.) Then she presumable becomes Mels and she grows up with Amy and Rory. She also says, when she becomes River, something along the lines of "when I last did that I became a toddler." So we know that Timelords can age even if it isn't their first body.

Funny how people quote the Master talking about the Valeyard's identity but I haven't seen anyone quote the Valeyard's short monologue from The Ultimate Foe, Pt 2, so here goes

Doctor: It would satisfy my curiosity to know why you should go to such extraordinary lengths to kill me.
Valeyard: Come now, Doctor. How else can I obtain my freedom? Operate as a complete entity, unfettered by your side of my existence? Only by ridding myself of you and your misplaced morality. Your constant crusading. Your...
Glitz: Idiotic honesty?
Valeyard (to Glitz): Oath. Microbe.
Valeyard (to the Doctor): Only by releasing myself from the misguided maxim that you nurture can I be free.

And much like the eleventh said, his name "is like a promise you make", or an oath, or as the Valeyard seems to refer to it a "misguided maxim". Hence the "Name of the Doctor" has already been referred to in the past.

Is there any significance of the book, from the first episode of series 7 part 2? It was written by Amelia Williams (obviously Amy) and Clara mentioned that 'the eleventh chapter [was] the best' or something along those lines, will we see this develop?


1. It cannot possibly be the Master because the Doctor would have had to go backwards in his own time stream and we've all seen what that does to the TARDIS.

2. The person who gave the TARDIS number to Clara could have been the Prime Minister from The End Of Time Part 2.

3. Hurt could also be an aged Tennant, because if we look back to the episode when the Doctor is forced to erase Donna`s memory so she wouldn't die. The Doctor took Rose and the duplicate Doctor to the second dimension so the Doctor and rose could both be aged and Hurt might possibly be the duplicate Doctor from said episode.

It's hard to know if Moff will ever make sense of these things (so far, he's made a lot of cock ups in his long games and then just ignored them). But the crack appearing in the TARDIS, being pointed out by the Doctor, and THEN appearing on the grave-TARDIS, I presume has to mean something. I wasn't under the impression it was healed by GI and Clara's actions, and so it seems to me that it'll be there until he's back in Trenzalore, which I presume would happen in the Christmas Special. It doesn't have to be there for a long time, just two more specials.

Quite how they'll get out of it then I don't know, but Moff has bullshitted his way out of every character dying at least once.

You said that David's Doctor and Rose could be of the past, but... could they be the Rose and the Doctor who are in the other universe? (sorry my english)

As to Clarence... Clara... Clarence... Clara.
Male version of one of the Claras scattered through time?

Carry On.. excellent.

My current guess is that he's actually the Valeyard. As far as we know, the Eighth Doctor (McGann) was the last one before the Time War, and therefore the last one before the time lock sealed Gallifrey. If John Hurt's Doctor was part of the Time War, as many think, he was the last Doctor who could have been on Gallifrey, because he later created the time lock. That, combined with the fact that he did not act 'in the name of the doctor'? That points to the Valeyard for me. I'm not an expert on classic Who though, so please correct me if I said something completely wrong :)

Hell yes November is too far away!

Are we forgetting the movie with Paul McGann (i.e. Doctor 8)? In that one, it shows a somewhat aged Sylvester McCoy (i.e. Doctor 7) apparently enjoying some much-needed relaxation in the TARDIS when he gets called on to transport the remains of the Master (a gelatinous blob?), crashing on Earth and being shot down (and then taking about a million times longer than any other version to Regenerate) as he comes out to investigate. Anyway, point is... he aged naturally during his time not adventuring but living in the TARDIS who knows where/when.

I suppose there's a difference though between growing up and ageing. It seems likely they grow to adulthood automatically no matter the regeneration, but afterwards they don't necessarily age. Like humans stop growing up once they reach adulthood.

Is it confirmed beyond all doubt that Clara is human? That it's been confirmed she only has one heartbeat? I've only seen a few episodes with her so far, so I don't know exactly how she's played into the story all the way through. I wonder if maybe she's the child of The Doctor and River, but The Doctor never knew he had another child. River kept it from him for whatever reason and gave Clara to the woman she knows as her mother.

This could be way off and completely impossible even considering "wibbly wobbly, timey wimey" though. I haven't seen most episodes concerning River or Clara yet, so I don't know specifically how their stories work in the show.

Also he can't be an aged Eighth Doctor, as Matt Smith's Doctor is supposed to be more than 200 years old (q.v. The Impossible Astronaut and Closing Time), and he doesn't seem to age a bit

assuming all doctor who media to be canon, in the "gallifrey chronicles" novel it is stated in future the doctor will have 3 ninth incarnation but never elaborated on. assuming based on what we know about regeneration, for 15 hours the body is bristling with energy, it is implied in "robot" appearance can change again shortly after regenerating, assuming the 15 hour window allows the ability to change again if still in danger or malformed without using more than one regeneration (romana in "destiny of the daleks" and the mysterious watcher from "logopolis" who existed between the 4th and 5th doctor.) bearing this in mind if the john hurt doctor's unspeakable act involved the time war (nothing else compares as it was not only genocide of time lords and daleks but probably countless other worlds as well) then what if the 8th doctor in the war was critically injured, went through 2 other forms, one being the john hurt doctor who ends the war, forcing him to become the eccleston doctor before the 15 hours expires.

now that is how you maintain doctor who continuity.

according to some doctor who sources not all gallifreyans are timelords. (gallifreyans have to graduate to become a timelord) but she would still at least be gallifreyan. funny idea if she lived a gallifreyan lifespan, the clara who helps steal the TARDIS could be the same one following the 4th doctor.

picking points from the episode that raise a distrubing theme,

the TARDIS tomb has the same cracked window as when the TARDIS crashes.

the interior of the TARDIS is the current 11th doctor design

there is no doctors after matt smith in the timestream.

could the fall of the eleventh be sooner than we think with matt smith leaving this year? or is there going to be another faking of death or god forbid a reset time to erase trenzalore so the doctor doesnt permanently die?

*also when the TARDIS dies it sufferes dimension leaks and grows, in parting of the ways when the doctor tells rose to let the TARDIS die after it takes her home what will happen when it decides to expand over london?

Just helping the loop along...think of us as your companions.

But he knew the secret BEFORE jumping into his time stream, not after. So it has to be something that already happened, not the future.

Just a thought has anyone toyed with the idea that Clara is in fact a younger version of river?

Mad theory time. John Hurt is the Doctor's son. The first Doctor ran away in a TARDIS with Susan as a child in order to protect her from her father. The son is responsible for the destruction of the Daleks and Time Lords in the Time War, and a disappointed father tells him it wasn't done in the name of the Doctor.

so what is his real name????????????

What the Doctor's real name be Sweetie or something .___.

Unless, JH's Doctor's "bad move", the thing that the doctor "will take to his grave", is infact ending the time war by using the TARDIS to blow up and swallow the universe; creating the big bang and resetting the timeline of space and time? Maybe how Clara is split up into different time-frames because of the "crack" was because of the implosion of the TARDIS and resetting the Timeline and she got stuck and thrown around the timeline itself? John Hurt could be the first ever incarnation of The Doctor and the last ever incarnation of The Doctor because they could be the same thing is the implosion of the TARDIS resetting the timeline theory could be possible? And this could suggest a reason why random people know random "key" things about The Doctor such as his resting place because in their timeline, The Doctor does die and then they get thrown aroundthe timeline also.... SO MANY THEORIES IN MY HEAD IT MAKES IT JOHN HURTTTTTTTTTT :C (see what I did there? ;] )

i think it's weird that the doctors are going from old to young o.O

John Hurt is the actor of the War Doctor that stared in the 50th anniversary as the Doctor who destroyed Arcadia Gallifrey. That is not The Doctors actual name. It is just the Actors real name for who is playing as the War Doctor.

If you had bought the DVD you would know that the whisper men had forced clarance to remember the coordanites


in the end of time, the insane dalek said something about the doctor's lives...

LOL! My goodness.. the jig is up folks, we all know what happens now -- And it was done beautifully. i look forward to the next chapter this fall / winter

Could Clara be a rogue justice unit with advanced anroid capabilities?

This is a spoiler alert for anyone who does not know of John Hurt or has not seen season 7! I don't think the Doctor's name is John Hurt. Of course I know he is indeed the Doctor, but he is between 2 Doctors (the 8th and 9th reincarnation of the Doctor). So technically he is the Doctor, but he isn't either because he is the name of the Doctor. So he is the 8 1/2 Doctor essentially, but he wouldn't be considered a Doctor because I believe John Hurt's existence was blocked off because his actions caused him to lose the place of being the 9th Doctor. I have 1 simple question though. If they revealed the Doctor's name in season 7 for the finale, why would they continue the show? Surely the director and producers and story writers have a trick up their sleeves. Because if they gave away the Doctor's real name, the whole show would be finished. There's a missing piece to the Doctor's name though. John Hurt as they say is indeed the name of the Doctor, but this might be a clue to what it really is, but I don't want to know because like it said, "A secret he will take to his grave". That means one thing, John Hurt isnt the Doctor's name because the Doctor swore to himself he wouldn't ever tell anyone his name besides River Song. So really John Hurt could have exposed the name of the Doctor so that is maybe why he never appeared as the 9th Doctor. The 11th Doctor was upset when he saw his self but it said, "Introducing John Hurt, as the Doctor", which means John Hurt was a Doctor but he never got to be the Doctor because he exposed the name of the Doctor, but we don't know what it is.

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