Kevin Smith is the subject of some debate amongst my fellow geeks here. Some contend that he's one of the best directors of all time. Others agree with me: he's vastly overrated. Until very recently, I don't think I would have bothered to put him on the dartboard, but ... sod it, he asked for it. Controversially, I really like Dogma; it's just a pity about the rest of his body of work.
Dart One: (20 points)
Kevin Smith might be able to write jokes, but he can't write characters. More specifically, he can't write believable human characters, and believable human relationships. Chasing Amy is a prime example of this. It just sucks. The main characters are unsympathetic and their situation unrealistic; and casting Ben Affleck as the hero is never a good idea, because the man can only play one character - arrogant jerk. Speaking of arrogant jerks, this movie was also made before Jason Lee found out that "acting" isn't synonymous with "shouting", so that wasn't the greatest casting choice ever either.
As for the fabled "Silent Bob speaks!" monologue, that can bite me. For one thing, it's wanky, overwritten bullshit. For another, he's never been quite silent enough for me. Shut your face, yappy Bob.
Dart Two (80 points)
Six words for you: Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back.
This film is a fucking abomination. The very height of self-indulgence. Plus, crucially, it's not funny.
Dart Three (Bullseye - 130 points total)
It's fairly obvious from watching his movies that Kevin Smith likes comics. Sadly, it seems like he doesn't like them enough: every time he's turned his hand to comic book writing, bad things have happened. His run on Daredevil was plagued with delays. He started a Spider-Man mini-series which ended up having a three-year gap between the first three and last three issues getting published. Another Daredevil project got abandoned, and after a pile of changed deadlines, another Spider-Man project was abandoned too. Missing deadlines is, in my humble opinion, a crime worthy of getting darts thrown at you all by itself, but there's another issue with his comic books which is more damning.
Kevin Smith retconned the Black Cat's origins to include getting date raped.
The Evil That Men do is a great looking book, and I have no quibble with the artist, but Smith's writing is just trash. It's littered with inappropriate film references, for one thing. It's wanky, for another, but that's pretty much a given with Smith. It's the rape that's the problem. The book is full of it. And while I would never deny that rape happens, and that it's a terrible crime, and that sometimes it can be sensitively and accurately portrayed in fiction and might even be necessary in telling some stories, it wasn't necessary in this one. It doesn't fit. It feels awkward and... well, it feels misogynist. Having just done a bit of research, I spotted that Smith's Daredevil run was accused of misogyny, too; I've not read that, so I can't comment, but, well, hmmm.
Kevin Smith is supposedly some great geek saviour. But, ultimately, he's just not very good.
Previous Den of Geek dartboard victims: Leigh Whannell, Len Wiseman, Takashi Shimizu, Naomi Watts, Paul W. S. Anderson, Zack Snyder.
Re: Den of Geek dartboard: Kevin Smith
Posted By simonbrew 1 September 19, 2007 11:11:01 AM
Sigh. Jay & Silent Bob wasn't great, but it was a hoot. And Chasing Amy was terrific. You can have dart three, though.
Re: Den of Geek dartboard: Kevin Smith
Posted By TVDust1 1 September 19, 2007 11:37:45 AM
Kevin Smith is retarded... But simply in the same way that most of my friends are too; inasmuch as they never really evolved beyond the slavvering, girl-obsessed beer/bong obsessed little gits they were when they were 16.
Even the ones who pretend to be mature still have their own little inner shitbag to repress as best they can.
As such, most of Mr. Smith's films - I have little knowledge of his comic work - are perfectly tuned to summon that under-developed bundle of Id to the surface; especially if they are bundled with sweet sweet amber nectar. Thus they serve a very distinct purpose to a certain audience; which, I'd venture, is not you Sarah - that's not to say you're wrong, it's just that he probably wouldn't care that you're right. And neither do I.
Clerks, Dogma, Chasing Amy and J&SBSB all have standout, fall-down, laugh out loud funny sections. Purile? Yep. Unecessary? Yep, that too... But funny as fuck. His, are films for the Id, simple...
I'd venture that the rather 'misguided' plotlines you speak of are not explicit exploitation but rather the misguided poetry of Smith trying to mature from 15 to, oooh, I dunno, 17 - and getting that first glimpse of the fact that, y'know, girls have feelings too. Hey, maybe he should have not tried to grow up? Or at least not done it in public, eh?
Ultimately, with Smith, you're dealing with a bloke who photographed his own wife's Playboy photo shoot - with a Superman/Lois rooftop theme. He's an unreconstructed lad, with a camera... He makes films for the lad in me - yes, I know girls aint bitches, but I find it funny that Jason Mewes' character can't seem to get his head around the fact... I think Smith has more up top that you give him credit for; because most of the time, I think he just chooses to turn it off... Plus, as a man who's missed a few deadlines across the years, it's nice to cross a kindred spirit.
Re: Den of Geek dartboard: Kevin Smith
Posted By Spidergirl 1 September 19, 2007 11:45:46 AM
... All I got from that is, I'm right and you're wrong.
Re: Den of Geek dartboard: Kevin Smith
Posted By TVDust1 1 September 19, 2007 11:56:24 AM
Plus:
'Reaper' rules all...
Jason Lee may shout all the time, but Banky is a good character, and Brodie's cool - and, as Brodie, he got some of the best cameo lines in J&SB
Someone's gotta give Affleck a gig - now his Farmboy mate Damon's gone off and gotten good.
He bought the word 'chibby' into the popular Leicester youth lexicon.
... And Snooch To The Booch, into mine...*
*OK, my wife hates that too...
Re: Den of Geek dartboard: Kevin Smith
Posted By TVDust1 1 September 19, 2007 11:57:47 AM
Well, then you're not reading it...
Re: Den of Geek dartboard: Kevin Smith
Posted By Spidergirl 1 September 19, 2007 12:13:28 PM
No, no, someone does NOT have to give Ben Affleck work. There's no obligation for that to happen, ever.
Re: Den of Geek dartboard: Kevin Smith
Posted By RonHogan 1 September 19, 2007 12:19:26 PM
John's response is basically, "You're a girl, you don't get it."
Re: Den of Geek dartboard: Kevin Smith
Posted By TVDust1 1 September 19, 2007 12:20:20 PM
The 'Fleck's gotta eat... He may look like an East Coast adonis, but under all that hairspray, is a man... Flesh and bone. *sob*
Re: Den of Geek dartboard: Kevin Smith
Posted By stuxmusic 1 September 19, 2007 12:20:44 PM
Basically...
Yes, the comic book stuff is a little shit. But his own comic book collection (clerks, chasing amy, jay and bob etc) is all really good.
Jay and silent bob is fun, but it is fluff. It was never going to be a great movie, it was always going to be the two dudes from clerks who talked about sex and balls having their own movie. Silly fun.
And the rest of his movies are brilliant, excusing Jersey Girl to be family fluff. Clerks? Fantastic. Clerks 2? Brilliant. Mallrats? Stupidly superb. Chasing Amy? Hugely great. Dogma? Brilliant.
So in essence. You are wrong. :D
Re: Den of Geek dartboard: Kevin Smith
Posted By TVDust1 1 September 19, 2007 12:25:20 PM
No Ron,
It's just 'you don't get it'. Nothing to do with being a girl.
I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I don't watch a lot of Bollywood films... I've studied them, I know the theory, but ultimately I don't enjoy them because at heart, I don't get it.
My wife loves Jay & Silent Bob. She's tapped into her inner teenage male, somehow...
my point is, that Sarah's right - if you analyse his films, they're everything she says they are... But it doesn't matter, 'cause his films are not written, budgeted or marketed to be for Sarah... or anyone else who doesn't get them. Smith plays, pretty successfully, to his market.
Re: Den of Geek dartboard: Kevin Smith
Posted By TVDust1 1 September 19, 2007 12:30:15 PM
He's basically the Uwe Boll of wordy comedy.
Re: Den of Geek dartboard: Kevin Smith
Posted By cjlines 1 September 19, 2007 12:50:42 PM
Nah. Bad comparison. Uwe Boll is content to be an artistic underachiever when he does stuff for money and giggles, but when tries to do something more mature (whether it be "Postal" - which for all its puerility is actually quite a sophisticated script - or "Seed" - which is deeply horrifying in the good way), he actually succeeds.
Kevin Smith can write sporadically very funny slacker comedy but refuses to accept that this is the absolute limit of his capabilities. Whenever he tries anything with more depth or maturity, it falls flat and is embarrassingly awful. Now, good slacker comedy is no bad thing at all, but his constant refusal to accept this fact is what makes Smith interminable.
Re: Den of Geek dartboard: Kevin Smith
Posted By cjlines 1 September 19, 2007 01:54:25 PM
I saw the website promoting Postal and thought it looked retarded and UTTERLY misguided. Kind of South Park without the irony. I couldn't've been more wrong. It's a very, very good film. A few gags misfire and it's not exactly in the best possible taste but on the whole the jokes are really well constructed and the targets bang-on. It's an uplifting film with a strong point to make and it works better than you might think. The sophistry isn't so much in the subject matter but rather in the way it's presented.
Re: Den of Geek dartboard: Kevin Smith
Posted By cjlines 1 September 19, 2007 01:57:28 PM
Oh, and as for cutting Smith slack for trying to grow up, that's precisely the reason why I WOULDN'T cut him slack. As a writer, one should be able to step back from a script or a comic or whatever, and say "Actually, this isn't working". The problem with way too many people is that, once they experience a modicum of success, they abandon their internal quality control mechanism and think that they can shit gold. It doesn't work like that. A duff script is still a duff script, no matter good the papers might've said your last one is.
Re: Den of Geek dartboard: Kevin Smith
Posted By TVDust1 1 September 19, 2007 02:11:35 PM
I like Uwe Boll because he appears to know what he is... I like Kevin Smith for the same reason; I certainly don't think he has too many ideas above his station anymore...
That doesn't mean I won't cut him some slack for trying to grow up, however misguided that may be.
By the way, I'm having trouble imagining any script to a film which has its director featured, wearing lederhosen, claiming that his films are funded by Nazi gold, and that has a plot involving a 'dude' and Osama Bin Laden fighting over dolls as being sophisticated - sounds more like Date Movie, with less cerebral content.
Having said that, I really wanna see it now.
Re: Den of Geek dartboard: Kevin Smith
Posted By Kempas 1 September 21, 2007 11:50:03 AM
I like Kevin Smith. He shares my name, he doesn't share my visions. But he did make Dogma. And was insightful in This Film is Not Yet Rated. Yep, it's s simple as that.
Re: Den of Geek dartboard: Kevin Smith
Posted By Kempas 1 September 21, 2007 11:52:52 AM
Also...I really enjoyed Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back. No, I really did.
Re: Den of Geek dartboard: Kevin Smith
Posted By Spidergirl 1 September 21, 2007 01:57:10 PM
But you think Mr Bean is funny!
Re: Den of Geek dartboard: Kevin Smith
Posted By Robmac 1 October 3, 2007 10:26:37 AM
Smiths Film work is patchy and progressivly going downhill - i dont think he ever really wanted to leave the mid 1990's and seems happy in baggy jumpers, grunge looked jeans, smoking, listening to Smashing Pumpkins and doing all the stuff we all loved when we are 18 and coz if this is sort fo teh film maker that never grew up. I loved the films then that he produced and really sum up that great time in my life, sterograms, comics, sega and snikerty snick Wolverine style bezerker rages... but we all have to grow up.. well at least a bit anyway. But his comic work sucks big time even though being friends with Joe Quesada Smith helped launch Marvel Knights and re-introduced comics readers to Daredevil that is really all he has achieved. While his first arc was great, like a lot of his work the creative spark went after his initial idea was used up (the re-appearance of Bullseye and the death of Karen Page) and we were left with a vague story about a second rate Spiderman villain (Mysterio) and a dull story to do with heaven and hell.
His other comic work followed suit in its mediocrity with DC’s re-launch of Green Arrow which was just plain dull. We, as comic fans are still waiting for the finale of Smiths return to Daredevil with the ‘Target’ book many many years delayed and his Spiderman/Black Cat ‘Evil that Men ‘ limited series rushed and was just wrong, sloppy crude and offensive.
Re: Den of Geek dartboard: Kevin Smith
Posted By raimi_30 1 May 13, 2008 05:49:40 AM
Yo Sarah,
Gotta say you have a unique taste and opinion when it comes to the film bizz. Some things I agree with, others it feels like your an angry young lass!
Admittingly Smith doesnt have the the greastest track record(what director does?), but i think you missed the entire point of Chasing Amy. Have you ever been in love? I'll leave it at that.
Archive 
