Why don't we have any superheroine movies?

Feature Rachael Kates 13 Mar 2013 - 06:54

With characters such as Black Widow sidelined in favour of their male counterparts, Rachael wonders, where are our superheroine movies?

It's a good decade to be a fan of the superhero genre. I mean, just take a look at the line up of superhero movies coming out over the next few years. We've got Iron Man 3 this May, Man Of Steel, Captain America 2, Thor 2, Ant Man, Guardians Of The Galaxy, a possible Batman reboot, new rumors of Man Of Steel sequel and a Justice League movie just released, and Avengers 2 in 2015. That's a pretty full plate.

However, something's missing. Of the 11 titles listed above, not a single one of them has even a whisper of a female superhero as the main protagonist. As it stands, there is no indication that any unannounced tenth superhero movie will focus on a superheroine either. That doesn't seem right. It begs a question I think we should all be asking: why aren't superhero movies about women being made?

There is an argument often made that women don't go to comic book movies. If that were true, how can we explain the fiscal successes of the Marvel Cinematic Universe? Box office records are not broken by men going on their own. Women make up more than 50 per cent of the population of the world, and whether the studios like it or not, their cash is contributing to those figures. Whoever is in charge of what gets made in movieland may not like the facts, but that doesn't change them. 

The facts are these: the female demographic exists. It has enormous spending power. It wants female characters in movie theaters. Why aren't the powers that be at DC and Marvel Studios giving it to them? It's not like there aren't comic book heroines available for the kind of  bad-assery that would put butts in seats.

Black Widow will have three movies under her belt after Captain America: The Winter Soldier, yet with no movie of her own, she leaves a large and obvious hole in the Avengers film canon. Combine those films with the Widow's 40 years of comic history, and that's a lot more than movie-creation Phil Coulson's got to work with, yet our beloved agent is going to be the driving force of the SHIELD TV show.

X-Men ladies like Jean Grey, Storm, and Rogue could also helm a solo movie, but instead, Wolverine is getting his second (despite the fact that X-Men Origins: Wolverine was, most critics and viewers agree, terrible).

Meanwhile, DC has failed Wonder Woman - one of, if not the first superheroine – abysmally. Since the Lynda Carter TV show, there's been nothing but the crushed dream of a Joss Whedon movie that died a slow death in development hell and a nightmare TV pilot that thankfully never saw the light of day. Why is it that Green Lantern can get a movie, Batman and Superman can have a veritable avalanche of sequels and reboots, and yet Wonder Woman the most noted female hero of them all leaves a gaping hole in the DC film canon?

Why? I think that's a question everyone who likes superhero movies needs to be asking themselves, and the studios that get most of the money you spend on a ticket. Why aren't any women superheroes getting the spotlight on the big screen? There are countless lesser known comic heroines who have their own stories to tell, like Superman's cousin Power Girl, or Carol Danvers, who has a mix of military background and Kree powers. 

Given the chance, people are going to see these movies, because the stories are great, and everyone loves a good story. We're in a low spot as a planet, and we need heroes. Why not let some of those heroes be women warriors that we recognise before jumping to, I don't know, yet another team with the one requisite female team member to remind you that oh, hey, ladies exist?

One of the arguments I've seen most is that men won't go see a comic book movie if the lead is a woman. Whenever I have this argument, it's never backed up with statistics of any kind. The “boys won't see a superheroine movie” opinion is just a whisper that floats around the internet, which we're told to believe is true. Put the graph in front of me and we'll talk again. Until I see some cold hard facts from a reliable source, I'm calling bullshit. What's worse, it's incredibly insulting to the male audience to think that guys won't go see a girl superhero. They will.

Men read the comics. They know the canon. They have opinions and concerns about female characters, just as they do about male characters, and they will get up and go see the movie just as they have for every comic movie that's come out so far. To think otherwise is dismissive, condescending, and, yeah, I'll say it, sexist.

Buffy Summers, Kara Thrace, and Xena are all leading characters who have their own complex stories and could take off a human head at 20 paces. They also have countless male fans who are devoted for far more than the hotness factor. So what on earth makes anyone think that male fans won't come out if you gave them a movie about the Johannson Black Widow, the Hathaway Catwoman, or any well-constructed Wonder Woman? Why don't we have that now?

More to the point, I want to know why Marvel Studios are producing a movie about Henry Pym, aka Ant-Man, a canonical violent domestic abuser who beat his wife, before a movie about a female superhero? Why Guardians Of The Galaxy, a movie with a talking racoon, before we get a story about the rich spy history of the Black Widow? None of these premises are bad in and of themselves, but that a wife-beater and a space racoon rate higher than any of Marvel's several-dozen superheroines is deeply telling of where Marvel Studios ranks any woman's story. 

In fact, Joe Quesada told Ain't It Cool News' Harry Knowles that he would “Love to make a tentpole movie with a female lead, but that he really doesn't think there is an actress right now who could carry it, or a character that would work either.”

To which I have to say: huh? Of what does Mr Quesada have such a low opinion? Is his doubt and disregard focused towards the female characters belonging to the company he works for, the actresses who work for him, female characters in general, or his audience - male and female - as a whole?

Something in the system is broken, badly broken. When asked why he writes strong women characters, Joss Whedon, writer of the Avengers, answered "Because you have to ask me that question".  The female-focused X-Men comic isn't going to be called X-Women, it's going to be called X-Men, because that's the team they're on. There's no change in the value of a hero because of their gender in comics, yet their presence on screen, even today, is currently 10 to one, odds against. So why should that be different in the films based on those comics?

That I even have to ask these questions is similarly a testament to the problem Whedon is talking about - a larger issue of gender inequality that is scary to face head on, and is often argued away by claiming "girls aren't in geek culture" and "girls won't go to geeky movies".

That claim is no longer relevant, because what were once geeky movies have made the leap from geek culture to pop culture. The cast of the Avengers were presenters at the Oscars this year! Movies in the Marvel and DC universes make billions of dollars, and you can't make a billion dollars if girls aren't at the theaters too. The reverse is true for stories about girls that hit the big numbers: The Hunger Games, and the Alien series, which centered on Ellen Ripley. You can't have an epic franchise if men aren't showing up too. 

There is a reason that female-driven stories like The Hunger Games explode with all audiences. A good story is a good story, and men want a good story just as much as women, regardless of the sex of the characters. In fact, during a casual conversation, 10 out of 11 teenage boys - the group that seems to be the target demographic for this genre - who I spoke to recently said they'd go see a superheroine movie, particularly characters like Black Widow and Catwoman, because they “kick ass,” never mentioning appearance as a factor in why they wanted superheroine movies. The eleventh only said he wouldn't because he “doesn't watch movies.”

I had the honor of meeting Stan Lee at San Diego Comic Con 2012. When I thanked him for everything he'd done for us in the past, he took my hand and said "My dear, there's much more to come." I don't believe he meant 'there's a solely male-focused future to come' when he said that to me. Marvel has used its stories, characters, and even its cover art to be quiet cultural revolutionaries for decades, and as the heart and soul of Marvel, I  believe that Stan Lee was including me and women as a whole in those “things to come.”

At least I hope that's true for the future of Marvel, DC and any other comic companies, as that future becomes more and more about movies...

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Catwoman (2004)- the Halle Berry version.

Electra (2005) - Daredevil spin off.

There are two of the biggest reasons. Studios will shy away from anything that fails until somebody proves it can work.

Catwoman failed in spectacular fashion for many reasons, but I'm sure many studios read it as 'expensive superhero flicks with female leads don't work'. Electra came out a year later, and did nothing to disprove that theory. I'm not surprised nobody in movie-land is really pushing to make another female hero movie right now.
However, all it'd take would be one really a great, and money making, female led superhero movie - and I'm sure a glut similar movies would follow. You just need the right person, with the right vison and the power to persuade nevous execs to step up. It'll happen, give it time.

Female superheroes can't carry a story, but that don't mean they can't just stand there n look pretty while the real heroes get things done.

One would think that a Wonder Woman movie is a no-brainer. I mean, really, how can they not make a Wonder Woman movie?
Personally I'd very much like a film about the She-Hulk, the quirky-but-cool, break-the-fourth-wall version that preceded the overly silly comics that followed. Alas, I don't think She-Hulk has ever been popular enough to warrant her own film.
But Wonder Woman? Come on!

Catwoman and Electra.. regardless whatever reason, female superhero movies have a history of bombing.

Really? I think Black Widow carried a lot of story in the Avengers and wasn't she not the wone who figured out Loki's plot, saved Hawkeye, shut the portal down? In fact if it wasn't for Blackwidow the "real heroes" as you put it would probably have failed.

That and Catwoman isn't a Heroine she is a villain in the Batman series that is occasionally an ally to him it is really only Hollywood (who've probably never sat and read these things) that insist she is a heroine.

Yeah kids really want to see catwoman and blackwidow in a movie because they "kick ass" and it has nothing to do with the costumes that they wear at all.

To be honest you could easily turn this on its head, where are the none white heroes? After Iron Man 3 WarMachine will have had three movies under his belt and yet no movie of his own same as Black Widow! Lets not mention Nick Fury and how many movies he has had without one of his own....where is his movie????? I could call racist just as much as this article could call sexism.

Also this article seems to forget that if it wasn't for Black Widow the ending of the Avengers could have been very different, wasn't she not the one who figured out Loki's plot, saved Hawkeye, shut the portal down saving the world? I think this article is looking for a problem that is not there, I mean correct me if I am wrong but isn't there a Wonder Woman in the works to run along side the JLA movie (assuming man of steel is a hit)? And I am sure this website had a few articles concerning a Catwoman and BlackWidow movie in the planning phases?

It isn't about being sexist it is about converting the most popular comics into movies for the highest return, the comment about how Wolverine is getting his own movie and Storm and Jean are not, is simply because they do not have standalone comics (maybe they had one shot issues but I am not sure) and the Wolverine comic is more popular than the X-Men comic and he is the most favoured of characters in the series.

Again I think this article is looking for a fight where there isn't one, heroine movies are in the works (in some stage or another) but with the very very poor track record can you blame companies for not throwing millions at a something that has never made profitability?

Not quite a superheroine but Gaiman's Death (of Sandman fame) is supposed to have been made into a picture for a while now, and I for one would love to see it.

Also- "Henry Pym, aka Ant-Man, a canonical violent domestic abuser who beat his wife, - I'd forgotten that, fair point! I don't get the love for Pym in fanbase considering this. I suppose the MCU will eliminate this plot point, and quite rightly.

There are not that many male superhero movies that worked, actually, and it feels as if superteam movies (X-Men, Avengers) work better. I think there are pretty few female superhero origin stories that are memorable enough to imprint the public consciousness. Wonder Woman would be the rare case.

My guess is we need something of a Nolan to raise this bar by producing an exceptional product that gains the best of praise and legitimates the subgenre.

don't forget supergirl

"More to the point, I want to know why Marvel Studios are producing a
movie about Henry Pym, aka Ant-Man, a canonical violent domestic abuser
who beat his wife, before a movie about a female superhero? Why Guardians Of The Galaxy, a movie with a talking racoon, before we get a story about the rich spy history of the Black Widow?"

Ant-Man and Wasp are founding members of the Avengers in the comics so they should be included in the MCU and you won't get one without the other. So, although the film is called Ant-Man I think we can assume it's the story of Hank Pym and Janet van Dyne.

Black Widow has been in Iron Man 2 and Avengers as well as the focus of two tie-in comics. Captain America 2 will also delve into her history a lot more. But I don't think she (or Hawkeye for that matter) could or should carry thier own films, and work better appearing across the other films. However the SHIELD TV show seems to have a healthy gender mix, added more female characters to the MCU.

This article doesn't really nail its colours to the mast and actually nominate a decent superheroine who could carry their own movie. Wonder Woman is a bit dated for a movie, Supergirl is never going to get a movie before Supeman (and are both DC characters, so probably won't be seeing the light of day any time soon). Black Widow has always worked best as a supporting character in comics (I can't remember ever reading a comic where she was the headline star), so you haven't really got the canon to play with that you have with more established characters. The only really strong candidate for a female superhero movie I can think of is Ms Marvel

Many superheroines fall under the 'female counterpart of a male hero' category, which doesn't help. Many characters, like She Hulk and Batwoman, only existed originally because otherwise the respective comic companies didn't own the trademark for them (which is why Marvel has Wonder Man, despite DC owning Wonder Woman).

Interesting fact: She Hulk's creation is usually attributed to Stan Lee, but was actually created by......Benny Hill. The story is that Benny had a sketch on a show where a woman hulked out, and Marvel consulted lawyers to see if they could sue. They were told that even though they owned the rights to the Hulk, they didn't have a female version, so they couldn't. Marvel hastily created She Hulk as a way of getting the trademark.

^There was a Wonder Woman in development for over 10 years...at the moment there is no director, no screenwriter or actress currently attached to it...right now we have better odds of seeing a Flash movie than a Wonder Woman film!
Marvel says they would like to make a Black Widow at some point in the future, but nothing close to official is announced about it...the earliest it will be made is 2016 at this point (we only assume it'll star Scarlett because she has said she will like to make it.)
The fact that she will have appeared in four films in a supporting role before (potentially) having her own film kinda reinforces what the article is saying (And her having such a pivotal role in Avengers says more about Joss Whedon than it does about the executives making the films...the fact that they would only let him have one female hero is very telling.)
Similarly the only rumour we have heard about a Catwoman film is Anne Hathaway saying she would like to reprise her role in a spin-off...hardly an official announcement.
The article makes the fair point that at the moment no female Super-Hero films are in serious development at the moment (no director, screenwriter or release date etc) and it is not as if the films being developed are their most popular characters (There are dozens of Marvel and DC properties more Well-Known than Gaurdians of the Galaxy for one, Ant-Man isn't exactly the most popular member of Marvels back catalog, before 2008 Wonder Woman was easily more popular than Thor, Captain America and even Iron Man to an extent!)

The Box-Office failure of two 'super-hero' films nearly ten years ago (neither of whom are technically hero's) is hardly a trend! Two Hulk films have failed in roughly that time (yet we are still talking about a third.)
If anything the success of The Hunger Games proves that a well made action film (which neither Catwoman or Elektra were) with a strong female lead could be huge at the box-office at this point in time...yet we haven't heard anything official about any female Superheroes films in the year since The Hunger Games came out. That isn't to say that every second Comic based film should have a female character as its lead, as there are so many more male hero's than female, but surely more than 1 film in every 20 should have a female lead!

The movies are starting from scratch with continuity and so any version of Ant-Man here will not be the same as the comic book version.

If marvel address it at all it will be one of those things like Stark's alcoholism that will change the character. Marvel have so far avoided Stark's alcoholism and we can assume they would do the same for Pym too until they've established him and want to change his direction to make him more 'flawed'.

As with Stark we may see hints in their character or behaviour that will show how they act under stress but they won't make anything of it until they've run out of other storylines or the change will have the biggest impact and surprise.

"Hank Pym has been a polarizing figure within the Comic Book Industry. His most infamous, and oft-referenced, moment is the time he struck his wife, Janet Van Dyne. Though Hank was suffering from increasingly debilitating mental issues at the time, and the actual event was the result of an artist's mistake, the scene has become one of the most famous instances of domestic violence in Comics. Hank himself accepted his mistake and has tried to atone for it ever since"

So the writer has an issue with someone who hit his wife once when suffering from mental illness caused by the death of his wife, depression and a number of other factors (and in fact this was an artist error but marvel decided to roll with it) but is perfectly fine with a billionare playboy sleeping with many women and drinking his backside off before putting on a superpowered armour to save the day? Stark is a known alcoholic in fact it was one of his key character building moments that made his character more real and relatable to readers. Peter Parker set up the events that lead to his uncle's murder so should he be banned from his own movie too?
P.S. I am in no way saying domestic violence is acceptible on any level I am simply pointing out a silly statement singling out a fictional character saying he shouldn't be in the spotlight because he has "x flaw" when in fact ALL super heroes have flaws of a kind.

The amazing thing is that Marvel already have the right man on board to make it happen too. If Joss doesn't want to do Avengers 3 maybe he'd be tempted to stay in the Marvel Movie Universe and take on the job of creating the first successful Superheroine movie, assuming no-one else gets there first.

Yes Wonder woman is more popular than Thor but its clear that Marvel is dominating the movie front, so unless DC start pulling together something good then those characters will unfortunetly sit behind. However saying that, it might be an opporunity for DC to fill a gap in the market if they jump in early enough with a good enough pitch.
I know your point that two failures is hardly a trend, but box office will be looking at more than 10 years past, and this is a buisiness and they won't move on from the big money makers while they are pulling in a stupid amount of money. I know what you're saying and in an ideal world it would be as you say but its a business and so far the profit is in the movies that have been released and I have a feeling they will milk these until the actors move on or the movies begin to lose profits.

I think the problem with a female superhero movie is the same as with a male superhero movie just magnified. You have someone "invincible" (Superman / Wonder Woman) in which case they are generally uninteresting - though time may tell on the new Superman. You can make them suffer - Iron Man \ Batman, or you make them kids (Spiderman).
It seems there isn't the will to see a female lead in the kind of pain Batman \ Iron Man was put in to become 'super' and the high school element does not lead into any female superhero.
Coupled with the additional problem of hitting the golden spot for feminine \ feminist it's not going to happen.

Because as Supergirl, Catwoman and all other attempts have been rubbish. As will any future attempt. If you want a good solid action film that will stand the test of time, then you employ a man. Films with women as the central star don't have enough punching going on (if any).
Most people would never have heard of Die Hard if it was about Jane McClane.
I'ld watch the Tim Burton version of Superman long before I contemplate watching any superhero film about some silly bint.

The Marvel films have shown us there is a huge selection of female characters to draw upon that could carry a stand alone movie without any issues.

The problem in the past has been the plots of "superheroine" films.

"Elektra" was a jumbled mess of a film that bore no resemblance to either the comic book incarnation or the character that appeared in "DareDevil"

And if we look at the plot of "Catwoman" (a fashion writer takes on a cosmetic industry giant who is selling face cream that gives you eczema) or "SuperGirl" (ex-Kryptonian superbeing takes on a witch who is trying to steal her love-interest with a magic potion) you'll see why studios shy away from superheroines.

As much as women will willingly see a movie with male superheroes, men will never watch superhero films that deal with 'girly' issues or overstated references to female empowerment.

Bro I'm not even that concerned about feminism, but this post is just sexism in its purest form.

Great article, Rachael. I couldn't agree more... and from three standpoints:

As a comic fan, there are so many great heroines to cover off in standalone movies. Not sure I agree with your point about Ant Man, but have to agree about the industry doing "Guardians..." over a WW, She-Hulk, Ms Marvel, Scarlet Witch (what an impact she has on the Marvel Universe and the Avengers), Batwoman/girl, Electra (reboot), Ghost, Hawkgirl, or Wasp movie. I'd pay to see those.

As a male film fan, the opinion that women aren't able to carry blockbuster movies is horsesh*t. The Tomb Raider movies were massively successful. Monster, Silence of the Lambs, Hunger Games, The Queen, The Iron Lady, Ghost, GI Jane, Alien, Nanny McPhee, Kill Bill, Prometheus, Carrie, As Good As It Gets, Mary Poppins, Sound of Music, Wizard of Oz... the list goes on. All female leads, all big films. And for the supposedly uninterested, knuckle-dragging, male populace there's always the eye-candy factor to consider - Jennifer's Body being a good example.

As a Dad to two daughters, finding them good superheroines to inspire them and show them what women 'can' do is very hard. I'm holding out for a heroine. If I do find one (such as WW or She-Hulk), they tend to be barely dressed and 36DD. "Getting your charlies out is the only way to succeed" isn't the best concept to ingrain on my daughters' fertile minds.

I think it's an "If you build it, they will come" scenario. A well-written, well-cast and well-acted superheroine film could start a great 'girl rush' of fatal femme films and I for one, look forward to it.

Dude seriously? You have issues and this isn't the place for them.

The problem isn't the studios so much as the source material. The male superheroes are just BETTER than the female ones. This is because they were all created by men for a predominantly male demographic. Men write better male characters than female characters, because you write what you know. Hence all the female superheroes tend to be reflections of the male ones (Wasp was a reflection of Ant-Man, Supergirl was a reflection of Superman, She-Hulk was a reflection of Hulk, and Catwoman was a spin-off character from Batman).Wonder Woman and Black Widow are about the only famous female superheroes to not follow this rule, but they were still written by men for men, and all the coolest superpowers went to the male characters. It's not a harsh criticism to say that Stan Lee is no Joss Whedon; most men write terrible female characters, or at least make them of secondary importance to the male characters, and this is because as we all know you're better off writing what you know. Men will usually write male characters, because it's what they know, and it's always been a male-led industry.

You're right that the system is broken. And I'd love to see Johannsen in a Black Widow movie, or Hathaway in a Catwoman movie. They're both good characters with excellent recent intepretations. But I fear that studios, and probably audiences, will never consider the female superheroes as cool as the male ones.

(I hope that Whedon being in charge will help to right some of this; if any man in Hollywood is able to bring the best female characters to the forefront of entertainment, it's him.)

Unfortunately,i'm afraid this situation is more indicative of the attitude of the studio film industry than the lack of ,attractive, commercial properties to make films from.Considering how rare it is,to actually see films realised presenting women as heroic role models,it seems to demonstrate that a lot of people in control have a very conservative attitude to the way they want female characters involved in movies.I seriously hope that they will realise that this cannot go on and is so obvious now that it is antagonising the audience that funds it's industry and the new creative talent it needs to attract to be successful.The most embarrassing thing about The Avengers is that it completely exposed how radical it was to see a major actress in a lead role with no prominent romantic storyline.It really seems that there is absolutely zero variation in the way women are featured in different genres of movies at the moment and it must be particularly demoralising for a lot of actresses that the industry still seems to be getting away with it and making money anyway.It is absurd and it's way beyond time that producers and studios realise not enough is being done to satisfy their audience.As a comics nerd ,i would absolutely welcome a movie about a female superhero as much as yet another attempt to portray Superman,Batman or Spidermans' origin again.Can somebody explain why a character like Black Canary wouldn't be an attractive ,commercial concept for an action movie?It seems to me the idea of florist,crime fighting vigilante who,s also one of the most formidable martial artists in the world and can even defeat criminals by screaming at them and rides a motorbike would be a ludicrously appropriate character for action movie film makers with trash sensibilities like Tarantino,Cameron or Rodriguez who have generally been much more positive about the way they have used women in their movies and been successful too.I think Wonder Woman is considerably harder as a property to develop for a movie because her origins are attached to an ideology which contradicts the demographic audience it should be attractive to.There can also be exploitational issues with presenting the character in a a way consistent with her original conception.

Is Redspider your superhero name? Do you spin intricate webs of words to hide your glaring, blatant sexist idiocy? Do you have a MAN cape that your mum ironed for you?

The issue with your post is that you're comparing any female lead movie with super heroes which isn't the issue. You cannot compare Kill Bill or any of the movies you've listed with a superheroine movie they are different, because then logically as the examples you've pulled showing good examples of strong female leads we do not have a problem so this article requires deletion. Also WW is not marvel so I cannot see the confusion this article has over picking Guardians over WW, they are two different publishers. However where I take issue is that DC are looking at yet again rebooting Batman.......why?

As stated before Ms Marvel has a massive impact in the MU so I am rather surprised that they have not thought about this yet. I can understand what you're saying but while the comics have progressed to something more in what you're looking for (for example Petter Potts has her own armour in Iron man and is a more proactive role and has saved Tony several times) the movie industry is still stuck in the past when it comes to female leads.

The issue is that directors and movie makers want sure deals and female super hero movies HAVE flopped and thats how the companies look at it. It will take a director with guts to bring this franchise back so we are looking at JJ or Joss to hopefully say "I want to do a female super hero movie or you can find another director"

Lets hope.

problem you have there is if Joss doesnt want to do A3 then its because hes done what he intended! Joss is an orginal ideas man and you can always get them done unless your a proven Box Office hit - he picked up Avengers and co to make a name for him self.
Now he can pretty much ask for what ever he wants from the studios, im sure he will just be seeing his contract out to marvel first

I think Wonder Woman could have been a good show. The problem is every so called fan was screaming before anything was known. The network panicked and forced changes as a result it was a hopeless mess.

yes. yes i do. you c*nt!

Back in your cage, Mungo!

It's also a fact.

They were written by people who didn't understand the character . The desire to separate it from the parent movie was a big mistake. Also Daredevil was crap and so was the last Chris Reave Superman and Superman Returns 9ok a few things i liked but very few) but it wont stop them from creating a new Daredevil and the next Superman is heading for the screen

Cat-woman is neither a villain or a hero..She follows her own set of rules. I think Dark Knight Rises had it right. She is in it for what she can steal but stops to help a kid being bullied and ultimately helps Batman. Catwoman is best when she isn't a joker or two face she is far more complex. The whole Catwoman movie was a B movie trash

Catwoman isn't a villain she is an anti-hero. There is a difference.
She is evil or good, she just does what she wants when it suits her.

There are a couple of film series that do have female superheroes.
Underworld and Resident Evil and they work very well.

(although technically these aren't proper superhero films - they still have superpowers)

My point proven.

Blade had a trilogy and a TV series. Black Panther is rumoured to be on the way in Phase 3.

I get so bored of the racism card; move on.

erm... Terminator, Underworld, Hunger Games, Kill Bill, Alien etc all have female leads and all have huge fan followings and did well when released. So your sexist reply to this thread is invalid. Hollywood has a real desire and need for women lead movies and it is about time it really hit off.

Most male action stars etc these days fall flat. Just look at Taken 2 or the new Die Hard... bore.

I'm a fan of Marvel and DC and if any female superhero were to get a film, as long as it looked interesting, I'd see it. I loved Selina Kyle in TDKR. But I think people should calm down. I'd rather have a superheroine film made by someone who has passion for it than a rushed film in order to stop people complaining.
P.S. Marvel are making Guardians so they can expand on the cosmic side of the universe and Thanos.

I agree with Laphtiya, Black Widow carried a lot of the story in the Avengers. Female superheroes can carry a story. Fact.

I'm probably one of the only people on Earth (if not the only person) who believes that had "Elektra" not been tied to the steaming pile that was "Daredevil", or the actress in the title role hadn't been in "Alias", it would've worked quite well. I liked "Elektra". Jennifer Garner did a good job. BUT... she had already been doing that on the small screen so it was like rehashing old stuff.

Hunger games is for little girls. Alien is over-rated, as is Kill Bill/all Tarantino films. Underworld is for the idiot vampire/werewolf brigade and it was Schwarzenegger that made Terminator a hit NOT Linda Hamilton. Sexist my remarks may be but they are facts just the same as it's a fact that you're a little b*tch.

Dude. You seriously need a girlfriend. Let some tension go...

The thievery thing kind of does make her a villain though

Actually - Black Widow's origin story is one of the best in Marvelverse. Just so you know.

Yes, a Ms Marvel movie would be WICKED.

Actually, your examples show the opposite of what you are saying.

The studios made those movies with ridiculous plots.

>And if we look at the plot of "Catwoman" (a fashion writer takes on a cosmetic industry giant who is selling face cream that gives you eczema) or "SuperGirl" (ex-Kryptonian superbeing takes on a witch who is trying to steal her love-interest with a magic potion) you'll see why studios shy away from superheroines.

If only it were the old GoTG team though... (sighs wistfully)

I have real doubts that a movie called "Ant Man" is going to do well.

The reason there are no Female superhero movies is that thecharacters themselves are nowhere near as well known as the male superheroes and Electra, Catwoman, and the Supergirl movies were outright failures. If they have not been seen to make money they will not get the backing they need. Not to mention movies like Aeon Flux, Ultraviolet, and the Tomb Raider films have not been overly welcomed, critically acclaimed, etc. Most people know Spider-man but far fewer know The Wasp, Black Widow, Mrs. Marvel, Psylocke, Black Cat, etc. They are as risky a venture as Guardians of the Galaxy but space adventure films are known to be big hits lately whereas superhero films are seen to be hits depending on how well known the characters are. Their best bet is to go with a Black Widow feature based off of her appearances thus far. I do not see a Hawkeye solo film yet but no one complains about that. He doesn't have one for the same reasons that there is no Natasha Romanov film. Lesser known character.

You know how those teenage boys didn't mention 'hotness' as a factor? Well, they sure as hell were thinking it. If you don't know that, then you're really naive.

I was just using that as an example of how silly the topic is, I am not actually playing the racist card. What I am saying is that saying that three supporting roles and no lead equals sexist is just as invalid as saying 3 leading roles no lead is racist.

Three supporting no leading

I should really proof read

Sorry to butt in, but we've now had to wield our rarely-used banhammer here. Seriously: how trick is it to have a grown up debate (as 99.9% of you are having) without resorting to seedy, pathetic sexist trolling.

I'll stop ranting and drink some more coffee.

Simon

Had to delete a few comments here, in case this bit of the thread isn't making sense.

I imagine if there were a female superhero in the MCU then 'boys' wold go and see that

I think the problem is that too many female protagonist superheroes have failed to be succesful the last decade. The 'Birds of Prey' DC Comics live action show, launched together with 'Smallville' and in played in Gotham City(!), failed to get enough audience. The reboot of 'Bionic Woman' fall flat. The 'Catwoman' movie and 'Elektra' failed.

I think those are the main reasons for a lack of superheroine movies. But the source material has patential for a big movie. Here's hopeing that the Wonder Woman 'Amazon' series will be a succes.

If they had tried to start the MCU with that film I might agree but it will be the 12th MCU film (not including the One-Shots) and will appear in the same year as Avengers 2. A cameo and/or post-credit scene in Av2 helping set up Ant-Man, Wasp etc along with some good marketing will surely ensure success.

Yep. They've hinted at Stark's alcoholism from the first shot of 'Iron Man' and more so in 'Iron Man 2'. It would be a good way to retire Stark from the Avengers if RDJ ever decides to stop playing him...

Look face facts she was mere filler, they could of had any other hero do her job she was expendable, they just needed someone with boobs to run the errands

She played the definition of filler, any other hero could have done her part, better I argue than black(sexy)widow, yes it would have been less sexy but still...

I think if they introduce him in avengers 2 or 3 before making his movie, then it might work. Seriously though his tiny aspect is cool to kids, barely to us, and not at all to comic book movie but not comic book fans. It's a hard sell. Now the giant aspect is interesting in battle, and was great against the hulk in the animated film. Controlling ants? Not likely to be very helpful

I'm afraid the name does not pass the lameness barrier.

Good on you for moderating though Simon - I'm on Yahoo a fair bit and they couldn't care less what gets said on their forums.
So thanks! :)

I totally get what you're saying there Laphtiya, and in many ways I totally agree. Plus, ratio wise, there are many more Male superheroes than female ones so it seems only logical to have very few, if any, female leads at this time. If the world had suddenly gone crazy for pole dancing movies then we'd see the opposite. And probably have the same debate....
And maybe in the end it actually comes down to the quality of the narrative for those characters, rather than women being rubbish.

On the plus side, when you look at the women playing support roles in these movies - they are usually really very good, and the movie would not be the same without them. So in the end does it matter at all, so long as the end product is good?

I... no, I think you've hit that one out of the proverbial park, lol. Although, there are a few that come to mind:

Lucy Lawless
Charlize Theron (DEFINITELY)
And just because I love her and she's hot, Jennifer Lawrence

Xena? Why not Gabrielle? (rene o'connor) seriously I think Lucy's great but hollywouldn't. I agree with Jennifer Lawrence, but on the sole grounds that she's Mystique (forget about Cap being Humsn Torch, I'm sure Chris Evans already has) (also xmen first class smashed FF, I'll address Cherlize. No practical complaints there, but I see your Theron and raise you, oh, say, lady Gaga (sorry couldn't help it what with the poker face and all), ahem, Anna Kendrick.

Renee O'Connor?! BRILLIANT! I just went with Lucy because I'd want to see her in black (blue) spandex, but Renee would MOST DEF work! And Anna Kendrick... I tip my hat to you my friend. You should be casting this movie.

I'm all for female led superhero movies but I'm honestly not familiar with key Wonder Woman stories. I think the real problem is the male superheroes came first, then the female heroes were honestly female versions of different superheroes. It's hard to get interest in Batgirl when Batman probably did the same story with a different take. So instead of pushing ahead with a Batman remake, why not go with Batgirl and see what happens.

Just saying who I'd like to see. I mean Jason mamoa may make a good drax, but if it was Kevin sorbo... Dude I wish I could cast it. If gambit would've been done justice and appeared in one of the more respectable xmen films i just can't see anyone but Adrian Paul, of the Clan McClaud, but anyway Anna Kendrick is young and a good actress. I had my doubts about scarlet Johnson and iron man 2 eased them a little but avengers did away with them altogether. Kendrick would be a nice addition. Just let whedon handle the rest. Rene o'connor would rock though. She could play her Kree mom?

That too

Boring we have to put up with the rom coms and that crap just let us have our superhero films. Female leading characters in the super heroes franchise just don't work as others below have pointed out. I'm sure they will introduce wasp but if you want to be real about superheroes the only ones that sell or that are big enough are Batman,Superman, Spiderman, Captain America, Hulk, Iron Man & Thor are the real Mainstream ones just be happy the females turn up in these sort of films. They really just don't sell well. Green Lantern a well known hero didnt do to well either.

They tend to be rubbish. It would be interesting if there was one which measured up to the best of the male superhero films and I don't doubt they could make one but they never to my experience have got even close.

It is possible to have a female super-heroine movie, just look at Kill Bill, brilliant film(s) and to a lesser extent Tomb Raider, all it needs is the balls to just make a film has a great plot and the fact that the lead is female is incidental rather than the ludicrous plots as Damon Mitchell pointed out.

Black widow would be a cop out. You need powers or its just Salt, Russian and all. However, if it were a superheroine, and yes I do mean ms marvel, that was introduced in the same in a cameo or ensemble black widow style, and cram in some origin, badabing. Then comes Ms Marvel the movie

Adrian Paul as Gambit!! Yes!!! Friggin' Anna Kendrick should've and could've been Rogue in the Singer X-Men movies as well. But you're onto something with this Renee O'Connor thing. She would be the perfect Ms Marvel, if for nothing else, because no one thinks she should be. Usually that works well in casting, not all the time though (we're looking at you, Ben Affleck).

The problem with a Wonder Woman movie is that she's a horrible character. She has a catchy name and a great suit...and that's where the virtues end. Her name is meaningless - it doesn't refer to what she does. Batman is all about dressing up like a bat and scaring criminals. The Flash is fast. The Martian Manhunter is, well, you know. What does "Wonder Woman" mean, exactly?

She wears an American flag, but she's not particularly patriotic. She's not even an American -- but a citizen of Paradise Island. What is she trying to accomplish? Why does she fight crime?

Also, her powers are a weird hodgepodge. She has a magic lasso that forces people to tell the truth. And an invisible jet. Except she can fly, so why does she need a jet? And how strong is she, exactly? Some stories, she's slightly weaker than Superman. Other times, a bit stronger than Batman. And don't get me started on her idiotic "origin".

There's only one way WW could make sense. Steve Trever crashed on Paradise Island, and Diana discovered the joys of heterosexuality. The Princess them visited America, and fell in love with freedom. But political correctness would never allow that to happen. So we wind up with failed pilots, back burned movies and dull, pointless comics.

Now, if you want to see female superheroes, I suggest that you take a look at Paul Dini/Bruce Timm's "Justice League" animated series. Wonder Woman comes alive there. Or "Superman: The Animated Series" - they made Supergirl fun.

Last one. Omega Red = Dolph Lundgren. Yes Rene would be great. Realistically though Kendrick is younger. Lets face it, Hollywood hates old ladies. And they also get to define who is an old lady. Such is life. I don't condone it of course. Rdj is no spring chicken and is THE superhero of our time. And if his story ain't a comeback story then I don't know what is

I'm not the world's biggest comic fan, and most of my knowledge of comic book characters is based on film adaptations - but seriously, *why* is a female-centric superhero film so impossible, in your estimation? There are lots of other kinds of action movies that have good female leads, so why can't a woman headline a superhero movie?

Train spotting ! Lol

You just need the right woman, director, character, and plot. How bout pepper Potts and Rhodey's "business trip"? Once you go metallic black...

Jokes aside, the old mistakes should inform any new attempts. And attempt they should.

I can totally see Dolph as Omega Red. The nerds need to cast nerd movies. Everybody can't be Joss Whedon. And you're absolutely right about Hollywood and older women. But for the age that Ms. Marvel was when she became Ms. Marvel, Charlize, Renee would work. Anna Kendrick should've been in the new Spider-Man movies as Mary Jane if you ask me. Or rather, they should have Emma Stone as Mary Jane and the girl playing Mary Jane as Gwen Stacy.

Agreed and agreed. Emma stone is too sarcastic and it makes her look frowny. Oh, and not nerds. Nerds are obnoxious. Geeks. That's what we are. We watch the unsuspecting public and calculate... Movies and stuff.

Is that really the rationalization you want to use for why women don't have leading roles in these movies??

> If the world had suddenly gone crazy for pole dancing movies then we'd see the opposite. And probably have the same debate....

Not at all, outside the real biggies like Batman and Superman.

I had barely heard of Iron Man before the Downey movie.

Thor was even less well known, and seemed goofy.

Captain America I'd heard of, of course, but he was an extremely dated character.

The Hulk had not one but two movies that didn't really work.

>The reason there are no Female superhero movies is that thecharacters themselves are nowhere near as well known as the male superheroes

Ant Man sounds like a really good cartoon show.

The more I read this thread the more obvious it becomes that there should be a Black Widow movie.

ScarJo is a star. She is a very good actress. She is great looking but not so beautiful as to be too distracting. She looks convincing in the action scenes. Her character is well-established and intriguing.

After the next Avengers she should definitely have her own movie.

What trickery is this?

This writer wrote a whinig article. Fair enough. but when you write a whining article it's perfectly legitimate to have people responde in kind withouit being censored.

If you didn't want want "unpleasant" comments then you shouldn;t allow such articles here in the first place.

Is it because she's a woman you feel the need to protect her now?

No. The comments I deleted were just plain abusive and nasty. Any constructive debate is always welcome, but when people are just using the comments here to fire personal comments across, they'll be deleted.

It's not because she's a woman. It's because she's a human being.

Simon

Really a silly article.

1-"There is an argument often made that women don't go to comic book movies. If that were true, how can we explain the fiscal successes of the Marvel Cinematic Universe?..."

Maybe by the fact that alot of these women are just going to see the movies with their husbands/boyfriends?

2-"Black Widow will have three movies under her belt after Captain America: The Winter Soldier, yet with no movie of her own..."

Black Widow is a minor insignifacant character who was included onkly to avoid women such as yourself complaining. She does not deserve a movie on her own. Even Elektra was more deserving a movie than Black Widow.

3-"Whenever I have this argument, it's never backed up with statistics of any kind...Until I see some cold hard facts from a reliable source, I'm calling bullshit."

Sorry, but that's not how it works. YOU are the one who is supposed to provide statistics on successful female comic movies, not the other way around. From what I know, none have been successful.

4-"In fact, during a casual conversation, 10 out of 11 teenage boys - the group that seems to be the target demographic for this genre - who I spoke to recently said they'd go see a superheroine movie, particularly characters like Black Widow and Catwoman, because they 'kck ass,'never mentioning appearance as a factor in why they wanted superheroine movies."

Aside fro the unscientific nature of your survey, all those bouys said they'd becauase they "kicked ass". A particuarly male quality. So if they only ike movie heroes that "kick ass", then they'd definitely prefer male heroes over female heroes.

====

One main reason why there are no female comic hero movies, aside from the lack of interest, is that one aspectof being a hero is you getting in fights and getting beat up.

You think Hollywood would make a movie featuring a female getting beat up? No. no one wants to see that, least of all women who scream "sexism" at the slightest thing.

Even in Burton's "Batman Returns" Batman hardly laid a finger on Catwoman while she attacked him.

It's just a rule: you don't show women getting hit. A buig problem if the woman will be the heroinne.

Actually if anyone was expendable during this movie I would say that was Hawkeye and the Hulk. Hawkeye only existed to be rescued by this "someone with boobs" as you put it who only runs errands. And the Hulk was a pure special effects feature nothing more, in fact he didn't really add anything to the plot apart from hunting down Gamma rays which to be honest Stark would have been more than capable of.

Have you ever seen Game of Thrones? Quite popular show with powerful women and lots of women getting beat up or kickikng ass. As I said it is quite popular

I agree, it is pretty awful. To use another example, I was shocked the other day when I realised that in the last six and a half series of Doctor Who, a show that supposedly advocates truth and tolerance and not to stand for repression or discrimination in any way, has only had one female writer compared to four of five gay writers. I'm not trying to be homophobic in any way shape or form, but this is a pretty poor state of affairs and does suggest a pretty entrenched sexism in the creative industries But returning to Superheroes, I suppose it doesn't really help that the last film to feature a Superheroine lead- Catwoman, has the reputation of being one of the worst films ever made. This is a bit damaging for the prospects of future Superheroine films. But then again, if we had someone of the caliber of Chris Nolan or Joss Whedon working on it, I dont really see how it could fail.

If done right a Superheroine movie would make loads of money. But the people at the top are sexist or at least stupid enought to think that women leading a movie will not make enough movie. it is not just a Superheroine problem it is a general problem. How many movies are there with female leads , (that are not romcom or costumedrama) in comparision to male lead movies 50-1?
Zero dark thirty shows us perfectly that females can offcourse lead a (action) movie, but same as with race , the world is sexist and racist or at least the producers are or think we all are.
A good movie is a good movie regardless of the leads sex , age or race.
On another note Wonder Woman ,one of the most obvious choices, is realy hard to do without it being cheesy or sexist.

But that's ot the same thing. We're talking about a "general audience" comic book movie here.

Form my understanding, "game of Thrones" is more adult fare.

His film is the first of Phase 3 and is out about 8 months after Avengers 2 so I expect some groundwork will be laid for the film in Phase 2 and/or Avengers 2.

The MCU films work as they have different genres (ie WW2 or Fantasy) within a Superhero film structure. This one was rumoured to be part set in the 1960's and part in the present day, he has a different power from any other onscreen hero, he has a superhero wife/girlfriend - there's a lot to play with.

"Ant-Man is definitely part of Phase Three," Feige said in early 2013. "It's very much an Ant-Man origin movie from the perspective of Edgar Wright and his co-writer Joe Cornish. It will of course be firmly planted in the MCU, but a different corner than we've seen before." Wright said: “It’s a way of doing a superhero film within another genre.I wanted to tell an origin tale in a slightly different way. It’s part of the Marvel cinematic universe, but it also feels like its own piece.”

When this was first discussed in 2006 Edgar Wright & Joe Cornish had a draft where originally "you see Pym as Ant-Man in action in the '60s, in sort of 'Tales to Astonish' mode … and then the contemporary, sort of flash-forward, is Scott Lang's story, and how he comes to acquire the suit, how he crosses paths with Henry Pym, and then, in an interesting sort of Machiavellian way, teams up with him."

This would place at least part of the story between the first 'Captain America' and 'Iron Man' films in the established timeline (and so could plausibly feature SSR/SHIELD, Howard Stark and even a young Nick Fury...).

Agreed. Thor was risky and gotg, antman, and doctor strange will be too

Exactly, reading these comments you see a lot of ACTION movies or TV shows which exactly do have good female characters with lead roles, but this article is criticising the super hero market in movies today a very specific topic which in cinema history the vast majority of superheroine movies have flopped big time.

Yeah that's lame

I'm not even sure who Doctor Strange is.

I personally want to see luke cage, iron fist, moon knight, tygra, black panther, so antman to me is not a problem. I've read dome origin stuff but mostly civil war and secret invasion and initiative, and I want to see this stuff on film, including him. A cool cousin of mine though serves as ambassador of normals and I him as ambassador of geekdom, and he doubted Thor and cap. It turned out to be self fulfilling prophecy but character wise only cap was weak to him, the problem with Thor was the fish out of water was a fish for way too long and also the love element was overused. I liked both movies and we both like avengers, on which both characters were cool. But when I tell him about antman and gotg, he feels like marvels forcing him to watch lame movies just to understand what's going on in the avengers. I defend marvel of course, but I play devils advocate with y'all from my cousins point of view. Vote for ms marvel

You sound like a producer...

Alektra flopped because it was not a good movie. Catwoman flopped because it was a horrible movie. If you make a good Catwoman, Black Widow, Wonderwoman , Or a X-women movie it could make millions.
Most people are not against superheroine movies or women kicking ass and getting their ass kicked.
"Black Widow does not deserve her own movie" it is statements like this that are at the heart of the problem! Why not? She has personality, humour,interesting history , she kicks ass and looks great doing it.
Just wait for Kick Ass 2 and see what happens when HitGirl becomes really popular.

Well that's rather obvious isn't it? They flopped because they were bad and if they made them good they would make millions.....ummm yeah? Little bit on the flat out obvious side.

What I am saying is people are giving examples of anything but a good super heroine movie. I agree that what you're saying with these people who say "they don't deserve their own movie" well sorry to all those people who say this because they have their own comic series so yeah why not make a movie?

Who does?

Yes...right on. Check out Avon from Blakes 7. He is the ultimate Anti Hero. I loved that character, he was bad, good , evil , kind, sneaky, clever and a killer and ruthless when he needed to be. There has never been a character like him anywhere else since.
In one of the behind the scenes interviews from the time, one of the guest actors on the show that week ( I think it was Roy Kinear) said that "Blakes 7 is the only childrens show where a right bas***d is the hero!"
Classic.

Oh, I'm sure someone out there knows, and has a reason why we should have a Doctor Strange movie before a Black Widow movie ...

I thought Cap & Thor were great...

The whole point of the Avengers is the Teaming-Up aspect so I guess you do need to see the other films to get the most of it but I guess you could just follow the individual franchises of your fave characters (eg Iron Man) and only watch the Avenger films to follow their story?

I want to see a gritty, street-level blaxploitation film for Luke Cage and a Kung Fu film for Iron Fist. (or even both combined in a 'Grindhouse'-style film).

Black Panther would be good but I wonder if it would be too similar to Thor?

While I have no issue with female protagonists I am apprehensive of female superhero movie. Too often in this type of movie females are given roles because they are physically attractive in order to make the horny fan boys happy. Rarely is a strong female action character played by a strong female actress. The Alien franchise got it right but beyond that it starts getting few and far between. I didn't buy Halle Berry as Storm, despite Joss Whedon's terrific writing abilities I couldn't get into Buffy because of Sara Michelle Gellar trying to be a bad ass (though the female casting in Firefly was great). When Hollywood starts casting female action stars for their acting ability and not the size of their tits I'll go see a wonder woman movie.

No doubt

How bout enter the dragon style, you got Bruce and Jim Kelly in iron fist and luke cage, just add powers and DON'T kill cage. Iko Uwais and Michael jai white. They defeat a badguy in the 70s as the heroes for hire but split up, and reunite in the present against oh, i dont know, whoever is their villain. Djimon honsou for black panther. Personally I'm not missing any if I can help it

Women will go to a movie that stars and features an almost all male cast . A man will not,or at least,it's considered less likely. That is the reason . Look it up.

Indeed.

Touché

It's hardly a silly topic.

Women are over half the population. Black men are not. Yet there are black superhero movies.

It's kind of comical how some go into contortions to try to rationalize why the grilz don't get to play in the treehouse, too.

Villain maybe, but you're almost always rooting for her aren't you?

Thanks.

This is a great site, btw.

Girls don't get to play in the treehouse? It's the fault of GROSS (Get Rid Of Slimy Girls) - apparently they have been far more successful than Bill Watterson would lead you to believe.

I agree they did a great job with Captain America and Thor. Humor really helped the latter.

I confess I've never bothered to watch Electra (nor Daredevil). I may catch the former...since my Jennifer Garner fatigue has worn off.

I think you need to distinguish between "whining" and complaint.

She has a legitimate complaint.

I dunno - Whedon is a major fan of comics, and if I recall correctly Avengers was more or less a dream come true for him (and his posse/family). I sure hope he sticks around to keep the Marvel universe on course for a good while yet, and I definitely could see him tackling a super-heroine movie.

A-ha! And here I thought it might be SPECTRE.

To be fair, I don't recall any superhero movies with a fat, ugly lead either. Do you?

Those men are hot also - speaking as a straight fella, I'm totally happy admitting that Chris Hemsworth and Chris Evans have amazing physiques.

That's awesome trivia, thanks for that.

Yeah, it really bugs me too.

Yeah I don't even go to other sites so weekends are a break from geek news...

I hadn't considered Lara Croft to be a super hero, but I guess she sorta is. But no more than Indiana Jones I guess. Borne on the other hand, he's been "enhanced" so is somewhat "super"human.

Oh MsMarvel...

Well, I have the virtue, as it were, of knowing virtually nothing about Ant Man. For all I know, he/it is a wonderful character. Marvel characters tend to be good.

But in genre, the name, the name has to have a sense of cool about it. Or menace. Or, better yet, cool and menace.

Even with Arnold in the role, would the Terminator have been as striking a character if he were the Robot Man? Or the Cyborg?

Iron Man is a cool name, with a hint of menace. The song didn't hurt, either.

Thor is a cool name, though it's more cool-sounding because the average person doesn't know what it is.

The Incredible Hulk is a cool, well, it's kind of a dorky name, but if you have a sense of humor about, it's cool and it's menacing.

Captain America is a corny name, but if you can play it straight and deliver the conviction -- which Chris Evans and Joe Johnston did so well -- it's cool, too.

But the thing is, NONE of these names are dorky.

Maybe Ant Man can be renamed.

She and spider woman are integral to the secret invasion arc. Well at least spider woman is, Electra not so much. Wasp and black widow also play their parts

Hanna and Salt then? There's Angelina Jolie again. I met her and brad Pitt at my parents' restaurant in 07. MS gulf coast, they were living in New Orleans at the time. Brad Pitt seemed antsy, and Jolie was waspish as you might expect...hmmmmm... Nah, Bad jokes aside, he was cool, she was quiet, pretty much what you might expect. I had to leave before I embarrassed my wife, but epically, my dad gave brad Pitt a Cuban cigar. That he just got for his birthday. I'm like Papi, he's brad Pitt, he probably goes to Cuba and smokes with Fidel. My dads like so what? Cubans.
I wanted to tell them what happened on the coast as far as Katrina. You know what happened? Same thing as jersey shore: 30 foot storm surge. Well that's my celebrity story that ill never top. Mississippi is back where it was before: on no one's mind

Women seem to do better when they are not trying to be ersatz knock-offs of super-heroes. Name almost any super-heroine and she is either a knock-off of a better male hero, or her powers are great in a team environment, but lousy solo. For some reason women hero characters seem to do better when they are a smidgen more grounded in reality and/or adapted from video games - Lara Croft, Alice, Ripley. Of the various comic book women, the one that might do best in her own movie is Mystique - not in a knockdown drag out slugfest, but more of an espionage thriller. Another good one would be Death from the Neil Gaiman Sandman series - and there is a body of work on her alone on which to draw. Might even have to draw from the smaller lines - Witchblade, etc.

A 1970's set film would be great - just not sure how they would then fit into a Avengers team 30 years later...

I'll take that "geek" definition.

So the GEEKS should be casting the GEEK films.

And regarding Emma Stone: my above comment doesn't mean I love her any less. I'm just saying that I don't think she fits here. Anywhere else? I AM IN LOVE WITH HER.

I'll say this much: it's not TERRIBLE. At least not to me. It's a decent Saturday afternoon, nothing else is on flick. With different actors it would've been AWESOME. It was the nascent Marvel Cinematic Universe. They had to take some hits before they got it right.

It's called QUIT WHINING AND MAKE ONE. {{-_-}}

One Blade as opposed to how many lily white heroes?

If you're bored of the racism card then END THE RACISM. {{-_-}}

"Lily white"....Niiiice. Exactly the kind of troll who needs their internet revoked.

I would absolutely vouch for a Spider-Woman movie but i just don't think that there's an actress who could captivate her essence over the course of a movie.

Nice comeback. {{-_-}}

I support having Carol Danvers in the film universe. However, it would likely be a male-lead film, as her origin involves Mar-Vell.

Ummm. Yes. The world has gone crazy for comic books which is a male dominated area, like it or not. Written mainly by men, populated mainly with men, read mainly by men. And before you say anything - I know women read them too, it's just ratios!

Pole dancing is female dominated at the moment.

I'm not suggesting it's right - that's just the way it is. So if there was a glut of Pole dancing videos - there wouldn't be many if any male leads.
It's 'A' rationalisation, not THE.

Thanks for this example of resolutely blinkered and offensive sexism.

No, sexism would be me insinuating that women are inferior because of A, B or C - or being utterly being dismissive of women. Saying Pole dancing is a female dominated activity is not sexist or offensive - it is factual. I could have gone with many other activities, I just happened to choose pole dancing.

There is nothing I've said here which is demeaning to either gender.

Totally false.

To dismiss a legitimate concern with an attempt to pigeon hole women into the stripper role is not simply sexist, it's probably misogynist.

Ummm. Okay. I have definitely said that all women are no better than strippers and so do not deserve lead roles in comic book films.

I apologise profusely for my ignorant ways William.

Don't be a wisenheimer. You're caught.

In your preferred and repeated examples, men are superheroes and women are strippers.

Studios will put out what works. Why aren't writers sexist for putting out absolute crap screenplays? Why aren't the actresses sexist for such poor performances, even from otherwise great performers (yeah, I'm talking to you Halle), when given the spotlight?

Damon said it all.

Honestly most of the DC heroines would need a total revamp. Lets take Wonder Woman ...she has an invisible jet (stealth technology...we have similar already today),the lasso of truth (its a rope not very action based) and tiny wristbands that she deflects bullets with. All in all compared to most of the heroes not very impressive,unless you go with a historical/mythical interpretation of the Amazons. At which point shes using bow,sword and spear and wearing actual armor. Which means she is hacking people up. You might be able to go with the female Vigilante from the 1990's or the third Crimson Avenger however. Both are similar to the Punisher but female.Personally Id prefer Shi or Tomoe from Crusade comics,both of which are do-able as is Witchblade (which was done as a series at one point). Sadly with DC a lot of the main heroines are female counterparts of their main male superheroes. With Marvel you do have a bit of a better selection. The problem once you have a decent character and script for this is there are few actresses out there that can pull such off these days or are willing to. Do I need to bring up the sword work of Penelope Cruz (which was terrible) in the last Pirates of the Caribbean movie? You might be able to get the women that pulled off excellent stunts and weapon work from Spartacus.I can think of two of the actresses in that that would make an amazing Wonder Woman or Valkyrie (Marvel) in the traditional Amazon or female warrior fashion,but it would be difficult for many to consider hacking up a criminal with short sword and shield or spear or shooting them with a bow as a hero.

But there are plenty of comic books with female lead characters, Wonder Woman being one of many. I'm sure males are the main readership of these, so why can't there be superhero movies headlined by a female?

Probably.....Because.....Those men who buy Batman to read through, buy it for an entirely different reason to that of why they buy Wonder Woman. By which I mean - If you have a Wonder Woman film it's going to be ridiculously sexy, and cater to the male sexual fantasy more than it caters to the violence and mythology fantasy. Meaning those people grabbing hold of the rights will do the wrong thing with the source material and ham it right up.
And like I was saying originally, although the female comic icons are available, they aren't as numerous as their male counterparts - and they aren't as popular. If you have a list of popular superheroes to pick from for a film to make - you're gonna take the top ones. And they'll be male. Wonder Woman is probably down in the 10 to 20 position somewhere. Super Girl is probably down in the 50s.
But then what do I know, I'm just a hardcore sexist ignoramus! :P

Interesting that you mentioned a list of popular superheroes. Characters like Blade, Iron Man and Thor weren't well known to the general public before the films came out, however Wonder Woman and Catwoman are. Catwoman did of course get made as a film, but catered to a sexy fetishized image to the detriment of everything else. A female superhero film really does need to have something more than sex appeal if people are to going to pay 15 bucks to see it in the theater; that sexy stuff you can look at at home for free on the computer ;-) Wonder Woman will be hard to translate to screen though, most of the successful films have a hero who has some type of "every man" appeal, which is tough for a lot of DC characters.

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