Den of Geek

Who needs hi-def anyway?

Sarah Dobbs


Blu-ray? HD DVD? Cobblers to 'em, says Sarah. After all, are they really an improvement that we're looking for?

Published on Jun 11, 2007

It's all hotting up in the next-gen format wars, isn't it? Lionsgate's backing Blu-ray, Universal's backing HD DVD, everyone else is pretty much hedging their bets and making some of each. On the consumer side of things, unless you've bought a next-gen console and inadvertently pinned your colours to the mast that way, you're probably hanging back till either the price of the players drops considerably, and/or one format or the other dies off and removes the burden of choice.

The problem I have, though, is that I'm not convinced hi-def is even worth thinking about yet. Sure, I've seen the stunning demos; computer-animated movies shown on hi-def screens played through hi-def players till you can see every pixel of the stupid gurning animal faces (there's a rant for another time: why are all computer animated cutesy animal movies so utterly shit?) and they look good... but that's because they're made with computers. What happens when you convert an existing film to hi-def?

It probably depends entirely on the film. Any new film will probably look just as pretty and shiny as the directors, with their high-definition cameras, hoped and intended. But we don't just watch new films, do we? What happens to older movies?

A look at how movies fared when we all switched from VHS to DVD might offer some insight. And it's not very encouraging: take pretty much any movie made in the 80s and I guarantee it looks shittier than it deserves on DVD. Now imagine upscaling that and showing it on a 42" HD-ready DVD.

Shudder.

If you're anything like me, you also have to take into consideration that your eyesight is less than 20/20, so you won't be able to appreciate the image quality anyway... plus there's the small matter of human beings. A vast, vast majority of Hollywood starlets are going to look like shit in high definition. And I really don't need a close up on Cameron Diaz's acne, thank you very much.
 

 

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Re: Who needs hi-def anyway?
Posted By simonbrew 1 June 11, 2007 11:54:22 AM

Personally, I'm buying HD content at speed at the moment, because I'm really sold on the quality of it. I had to buy a screen to support it, but watching The Mummy in HD over the weekend was fascinating for a couple of reasons: number one, the clarity was better, and number two, you could pretty much see every digital join. On the HD debate though, one major factor that keeps getting lost is sound quality. Looking at HD DVD and Blu-ray, they both support lossless surround sound. And that, for me, is as important a jump as that of picture quality.

Re: Who needs hi-def anyway?
Posted By Liberace 1 June 11, 2007 12:45:50 PM

Forgetting the whole Blu-Ray/HD DVD debacle for the moment, there is a whole range of material already being broadcast by SKy in HD. Some of this doesn't look a whole lot different, especially if the movie is older and more grainy as you say. But some movies just come alive in HD, especially those with more action and effects. Sport also benefits hugely from the HD wand as you can actually see player shirt numbers etc clearly and the whole game feels more involving. It pisses me off to pay Sky an extra £10 a month for HD but its rapidly becoming all I watch because it just looks so much better. Those extra pixels go a long way when you have a projector and a decent sized screen. I also remember buying early DVDs that were just non-anamorphic copies of the original VHS and the quality just sucked. I have no less than 3 copies of Conan The Barbarian in DVD format, with each release technically improving on the last. I imagine the studios will cash-in in the same way with HDVD and BR - I won't be changing my DVD player for some time.

Re: Who needs hi-def anyway?
Posted By RonHogan 1 June 11, 2007 07:22:11 PM

I don't know anyone screaming that they want higher-definition DVDs. My DVD collection looks fine on TV; my TV picture, on the other hand, is terrible. I want HD TV, not HD DVDs.

Re: Who needs hi-def anyway?
Posted By Tippon 1 June 21, 2007 03:08:12 PM

Nice one Sarah. Pretty much exactly what I've been thinking :) Good point on the sound quality though Simon.

Re: Who needs hi-def anyway?
Posted By Liberace 1 June 26, 2007 09:05:37 AM

I'm not sure you are even going to hear the improvement in sound quality unless you have a) an extremely good Av set-up b) great hearing c) a properly set up room d) DVDs that have been propoerly encoded to take advantage of the increased bandwdith e) fine musical detail that will benefit from the extra bandwidth f) all of the above! The difference between HD and an SD picture is instantly recognised and immediately appreciated (if you plasma/projector supports HD). Given that most BR and HD DVDs won't make use of anything like the full auido bandwdith or available channels I think you will struggle to tell the difference. Can you tell the difference between SACDs and normal CDs when you use them in 2 channel mode? You will need good kit and ears to do so. That said I am still going to upgrade to DD HD/DTS HD, probably with the Denon 3808ci. Even if I can't hear the difference I like to know that it's there ;-) And it seems sensible future proffing to have the new formats if I manage point f) above.

Re: Who needs hi-def anyway?
Posted By simonbrew 1 June 26, 2007 10:14:03 AM

A lot of those I agree with, but it's not going to stop me :-) The thing for me about HD, both in terms of picture and audio, is that you get out of it what you invest into it. I deliberately bought a 1080p, sizeable television so I'd notice a difference in the visuals, for instance. It doesn't affect 80% of my viewing - even making it worse in some cases - but for the HD discs that have been properly put together, it's goosebump-good. I'm passionate about seeing films properly, and I want to wring out every bit of detail I can get, and - wallet/credit rating allowing - will invest in the setup to help me do that. The same will no doubt apply when I upgrade my audio rig. I'm happy with the current setup, but I enjoy - as much as volume - the subtleties of proper, well-employed surround sound. And while I've only experienced demo-room HD audio thus far, my ears did pick up the differences. I accept it's not a video to DVD jump, but it is a jump, and I'm more comfortable with my audio being uncompressed too. I'm not rushing to upgrade my audio for cost reasons, and also because I don't believe the material is there yet. But the thought of seeing my favourite blockbusters in a way that pretty much exceeds their cinema presentation in all aspects - The Hulk, Con Air, Batman Begins etc - is irresistible for me. I might syringe my ears first, though...

Re: Who needs hi-def anyway?
Posted By Liberace 1 June 26, 2007 10:26:58 AM

When you were Demo'd DD-HD (or DTs-HD you don't say which) was it a "normal" film or was it a demo disc designed to show off a system? And did you then compare the same film soundtrack played back in DD-EX (or DTS-ES) so you could compare the different sound formats on the same amp and speakers. When I go to demo rooms the film soundtrack almost always sounds better then my home cinema as the room is a) accoustically better set-up and b) the kit they use is often far more expensive than my own AV set-up c) they use DVD that are desigend to show off the systems at their best I fully agree that I also want the technology. I'm just saying I want it for vanity reasons, not sanity reasons. I dount if I will be able to tell the difference, certainly until HD-DVDs start to push the auido boat out a little. And given that an HD set up is probably going to set you back £3,000 (assuming you use the same 7.1 speakers you have now), you would be far better off upgrading your speakers or the listening room with that money from a bang for audio buck point of view.

Re: Who needs hi-def anyway?
Posted By simonbrew 1 June 27, 2007 09:56:59 AM

I take the point on demo equipment, and yes, it was a demo reel if I recall. Even appreciating that, though, it hardened my view on HD (especially as I didn't have a HD display at the time). And thus, when the time comes, and I do jump to a new sound setup, I'm likely to pay to get it professionally installed too. Might need a new house first, though :-) I agree entirely that it's not worth making an audio jump yet. The optical media hasn't really delivered, from what I've read, too much extra in terms of proper HD audio (my current system can only pick up minor differences), and won't for a while. But this will be quite a jump for me when it happens anyway: I have a 5.1 DTS setup at the moment, and a budget solution at that. When it comes to finally invest in the next step up, I really want to get the very best I can afford come that time. Given what I have now and what I suspect I'll invest in, I'm wagering I'll notice quite a difference.

Re: Who needs hi-def anyway?
Posted By bish 1 June 29, 2007 01:20:28 PM

Actually most older films look fine on HD as long as they are transfered to video correctly. You've got it a bit backwards. Up until now there has not been a home video format that could display film at it's full resolution the way it's supposed to look in the theatre. Film is a High Resolution format. Filmmakers have used film almost exclusively for the cinema because it's so far superior to Video. HD has changed that a bit by finally suppling video with the full resolution that film has always had. If a film has grain on it dvd would actually accentuate it. Take one bad film and put in on a low resolution format and it's not going to look better it will look worse. Granted it's up to the studios to make good HD transfers of the movies. Most movies have had HD transfers done for their DVD releases so its just a matter of putting them on a format (HD DVD, Blu-ray) that can actually display the full resolution of film. The best example is the 1938 classic Adventures of Robin Hood on HD DVD. This movie was made 70 years ago long before HD was even a remote possibility and it looks amazing on HD DVD much better then any previous DVD release because the transfer is really good and finally there is a format that can deliver it in it's full resolution. Sure there are crappy looking movies out there but they are going to look just as crappy if not more so on DVD then in HD. One last thing. If your eyesight is bad then wouldn't you want to see as clear a picture as possible? The clearer the picture the better your going to see it.
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